n-Stream Alternative For Android Users?

Posted by: Shadowbound on 29 January 2014

Hi All,

 

After a recent demo, I'm eager to purchase the Naim Unitilite, but I have an issue in terms of not owning an Apple product to use the n-Stream app. The demo of the hardware was great when combined with a NAS drive and an iPad, but I can't get over the loss of functionality due to there being no support for Android devices. I've e-mailed Naim about this and received the same response as everyone else in terms of their intention to support the platform in the future, but, in all honesty, the possibility of them actually doing so seems borderline non-existent at best.

 

So, is there a genuine alternative to the n-Stream app for Android / Windows users, or am I going to have to find an alternative to the Unitilite itself. In essence, I won't be spending money based on a demonstration of hardware (iPad) I don't, and will never own.

 

Lastly, for clarity, my intention is to connect the Unitilite to the HUB/Modem via ethernet, and a NAS drive to the network via ethernet also. With both connected to the home network, I would like the ability to control playback of the files on the NAS drive through the Unitilite, and to also be able to manipulate the volume and search through the internet radio stations. This would all be controlled through the n-Stream app usually, but that's not a viable option for me.

 

I've downloaded Bubble UPnP, but due to not owning the Unitilite at this time, I've got no idea of how functional it will actually be as an alternative.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

Regards,

 

Scott.

Posted on: 01 February 2014 by Cowboy Tony
Originally Posted by Jota:

 

 

If it was so easy they'd have done it.  It's been 2 years and nothing, which suggests it's not as easy as you think it is.

What are you basing this on ? There may be many reasons they have not done it. Unfortunately Naim have chosen not to be open and transparent as to why they have not delivered on their commitment.

Posted on: 01 February 2014 by Adrian_P

Conrad isn't alone. Check out the following:

 

http://www.theinquirer.net/inq...d-windows-phone-apps

 

"The statistics from Evans Data report that 41 percent of developers think that it's quickest to write apps for the Android mobile operating system, compared with 36 percent for iOS, and 34 percent for Windows Phone."

 

The old "Android is fragmented and hard to develop for" argument just doesn't stand up anymore.

 

Adrian

 

Posted on: 01 February 2014 by osprey
Originally Posted by Conrad Winchester:
Originally Posted by Jota:
Originally Posted by Conrad Winchester:

Jota and Timster,

 

you are both very wrong.

 

Google do not control when 3rd party manufacturers get android updates - thats up to the third party manufacturers.

 

Developing an app for multiple android versions is also trivial - it s designed that way - you just specify the minimum version you support and bobs your uncle. Its even easier when you are developing an application that would use standard UI components, because its simple supporting different resolution screens.

 

There's a lot of fud out there about android which belongs in the past (years in the past).

 

I bought my NDX about two years ago and was told an android app was on the way. LOL. I have given up hope of ever seeing one.

 

Its a shame that people are prejudiced against android :-( it really is gaining ground (because it is so good) whilst iOS is slipping (68% worldwide market share to android and only 18.5%  iOS) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...p_in_kantar_reports/

 

ho hum

 

If it was so easy they'd have done it.  It's been 2 years and nothing, which suggests it's not as easy as you think it is.

I don't 'think' its trivial, I know it is. I develop android software.


Aren't you a bit biased then? Only natural that one defend one's own livelihood though.
Posted on: 01 February 2014 by Conrad Winchester
Originally Posted by osprey:
Originally Posted by Conrad Winchester:
Originally Posted by Jota:
Originally Posted by Conrad Winchester:

Jota and Timster,

 

you are both very wrong.

 

Google do not control when 3rd party manufacturers get android updates - thats up to the third party manufacturers.

 

Developing an app for multiple android versions is also trivial - it s designed that way - you just specify the minimum version you support and bobs your uncle. Its even easier when you are developing an application that would use standard UI components, because its simple supporting different resolution screens.

 

There's a lot of fud out there about android which belongs in the past (years in the past).

 

I bought my NDX about two years ago and was told an android app was on the way. LOL. I have given up hope of ever seeing one.

 

Its a shame that people are prejudiced against android :-( it really is gaining ground (because it is so good) whilst iOS is slipping (68% worldwide market share to android and only 18.5%  iOS) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...p_in_kantar_reports/

 

ho hum

 

If it was so easy they'd have done it.  It's been 2 years and nothing, which suggests it's not as easy as you think it is.

I don't 'think' its trivial, I know it is. I develop android software.


Aren't you a bit biased then? Only natural that one defend one's own livelihood though.

I was not defending anything, I was trying to educate people who know nothing about these things using my experience of them.

Posted on: 02 February 2014 by Jude2012
Conrad.  It is good to educate, however, credible and unbiased sources of information would be useful.  The comments in the article from the 'Inquirer' is challenged quite well by comments on that site. 

Everyday there are a lot of research and media companies trying to get people look at that sites by posting articles that inflame one side or another.

Jude
Posted on: 02 February 2014 by Bananahead

I do not understand why anyone would defend Naim for failing to create an Android app.

Posted on: 02 February 2014 by Conrad Winchester

Bananahead - Spot on.

 

Jude2012 - when did I refer to the article in the Inquirer?

 

It comes down to this

 

Android is the dominant mobile phone operating system on the market, by a big margin.

 

Android development is very well supported and aimed at dealing with all kinds of phones - You can start to find out about it here http://developer.android.com/t.../firstapp/index.html

 

In order to develop and distribute an application for android you don't need to pay anybody any money - its costs £60 a year for the privilege of doing so on iOS (oh and if you stop paying that money your app will disappear from the app store and peoples phones).

 

Naim should be ashamed of not putting some resources into this.

Posted on: 02 February 2014 by Jota
Originally Posted by Adrian_P:
Conrad isn't alone. Check out the following:



Adrian

I'm not alone.  Check out the following...

 

http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/...he-state-of-the-art/

"And The Winner Is…

iOS, and by some distance. Android has its advantages, but overall, it remains significantly easier to write good iOS apps than good Android apps. "


Posted on: 02 February 2014 by Jude2012

Apologies, Conrad.   The Register is not a credible source either though .

 

My point is that there are many sites that claim that Android is best etc and others that claim Apple is.

 

I have made up my mind. 

 

Regarding Naim and  Android, only Naim and possibly dealers know exactly how many sales are lost 

 

J

Posted on: 02 February 2014 by Jota
Nice article in the Guardian on the issues.


http://www.theguardian.com/tec...os-apps-apple-google

Perhaps Naim are working in the background but in any case, what they are doing is no different to many other app developers.  Start on iOS and then see if Android is a workable option that won't require disproportionate resources to deliver and maintain.
Posted on: 02 February 2014 by Cowboy Tony

Nothing wrong with that approach per se but the difference with naim is they promised an android app within a short time frame and did not deliver. If they are working in the background then they should say so

 

 

 

Perhaps Naim are working in the background but in any case, what they are doing is no different to many other app developers.  Start on iOS and then see if Android is a workable option that won't require disproportionate resources to deliver and maintain.

 

Posted on: 02 February 2014 by Jude2012
Originally Posted by Cowboy Tony:

Nothing wrong with that approach per se but the difference with naim is they promised an android app within a short time frame and did not deliver. If they are working in the background then they should say so

 

 

 

Perhaps Naim are working in the background but in any case, what they are doing is no different to many other app developers.  Start on iOS and then see if Android is a workable option that won't require disproportionate resources to deliver and maintain.

 

Agree with the point about delivering on a promise or keeping punters informed .

Posted on: 03 February 2014 by 0rangutan

There is an Android app available for controlling Naim streamers - search the Google Play Store for Namote.

 

This doesn't replicate nStream, but it does provide Input switching and Volume Control.

Combine this with BubbleUPNP for streaming control and you have a usable (if not very neat) solution.

 

Alternatively, if you have a Synology NAS, the DSRemote app works really well with my Qute and is well worth a look.

Posted on: 03 February 2014 by timster
Originally Posted by Conrad Winchester:
Originally Posted by osprey:
Originally Posted by Conrad Winchester:
Originally Posted by Jota:
Originally Posted by Conrad Winchester:

Jota and Timster,

 

you are both very wrong.

 

Google do not control when 3rd party manufacturers get android updates - thats up to the third party manufacturers.

 

Developing an app for multiple android versions is also trivial - it s designed that way - you just specify the minimum version you support and bobs your uncle. Its even easier when you are developing an application that would use standard UI components, because its simple supporting different resolution screens.

 

There's a lot of fud out there about android which belongs in the past (years in the past).

 

I bought my NDX about two years ago and was told an android app was on the way. LOL. I have given up hope of ever seeing one.

 

Its a shame that people are prejudiced against android :-( it really is gaining ground (because it is so good) whilst iOS is slipping (68% worldwide market share to android and only 18.5%  iOS) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...p_in_kantar_reports/

 

ho hum

 

If it was so easy they'd have done it.  It's been 2 years and nothing, which suggests it's not as easy as you think it is.

I don't 'think' its trivial, I know it is. I develop android software.


Aren't you a bit biased then? Only natural that one defend one's own livelihood though.

I was not defending anything, I was trying to educate people who know nothing about these things using my experience of them.

 

Conrad,
If you re-read my comments, I made *no* mention of when android updates are released or received. Further, I made no mention on how "trivial" it may or may not be to create an android version. My point was it is not necessarily a technical challenge rather a business one - "It's not the development that kills you, it's the maintenance."

 

Finally, I find it offensive to somehow say I know nothing about these "things" when all I have done in my working life is software development, release, support and perhaps more importantly in this case, management. So, I too have experience of these things. Given it is so trivial, perhaps you should offer your services to Naim and get the ball rolling?

 

-timster

Posted on: 03 February 2014 by Bananahead
Originally Posted by 0rangutan:

 

Alternatively, if you have a Synology NAS, the DSRemote app works really well with my Qute and is well worth a look.

 

DSRemote?   I can't see it on the Synology pages.

Posted on: 03 February 2014 by 0rangutan
Sorry, "DS Audio"
Posted on: 03 February 2014 by Bananahead

Thanks.

 

DS Audio works nicely as a remote app but I have never tried it as a control point.

Posted on: 04 February 2014 by Conrad Winchester
Originally Posted by timster:
Originally Posted by Conrad Winchester:
Originally Posted by osprey:
Originally Posted by Conrad Winchester:
Originally Posted by Jota:
Originally Posted by Conrad Winchester:

Jota and Timster,

 

you are both very wrong.

 

Google do not control when 3rd party manufacturers get android updates - thats up to the third party manufacturers.

 

Developing an app for multiple android versions is also trivial - it s designed that way - you just specify the minimum version you support and bobs your uncle. Its even easier when you are developing an application that would use standard UI components, because its simple supporting different resolution screens.

 

There's a lot of fud out there about android which belongs in the past (years in the past).

 

I bought my NDX about two years ago and was told an android app was on the way. LOL. I have given up hope of ever seeing one.

 

Its a shame that people are prejudiced against android :-( it really is gaining ground (because it is so good) whilst iOS is slipping (68% worldwide market share to android and only 18.5%  iOS) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...p_in_kantar_reports/

 

ho hum

 

If it was so easy they'd have done it.  It's been 2 years and nothing, which suggests it's not as easy as you think it is.

I don't 'think' its trivial, I know it is. I develop android software.


Aren't you a bit biased then? Only natural that one defend one's own livelihood though.

I was not defending anything, I was trying to educate people who know nothing about these things using my experience of them.

 

Conrad,
If you re-read my comments, I made *no* mention of when android updates are released or received. Further, I made no mention on how "trivial" it may or may not be to create an android version. My point was it is not necessarily a technical challenge rather a business one - "It's not the development that kills you, it's the maintenance."

 

Finally, I find it offensive to somehow say I know nothing about these "things" when all I have done in my working life is software development, release, support and perhaps more importantly in this case, management. So, I too have experience of these things. Given it is so trivial, perhaps you should offer your services to Naim and get the ball rolling?

 

-timster

Timster,

 

if you read my reply carefully, you can see that at the top it was addressed to both Jota and you. It was Jota who mentioned release dates - so chill.

 

You went on to say

 

"I can imagine supporting android would be similar to supporting Unix - Which flavour os, version and chip set combinations..."

 

Sounds like you are guessing about technical issues to me. Technical isssues that you don't know about. 

 

When developing a basic UI/Networking application for Android it is actually  like developing for a JVM (I presume you know what that is) in that every single android device provides a consistent container for your application - no matter the chipset or features it has.

 

"As others have suggested, buy a secondhand iPad and use it until a version for android comes out for your device. When one does, you can then sell the iPad on at that time. Why cut off your nose to spite your face?"

 

Because we were told an android version of the application would be forthcoming a couple of years ago.

Posted on: 04 February 2014 by Conrad Winchester
Bananahead and Orangutan,
 
Thank you for putting me onto DS Audio - I have started playing with it and it seems to be really amazing - I had to enable UPnP/DLNA browsing for my account and suddenly it seems to be an excellent control point - even nicer than bubble UPnP. I am using version 5.2 of audio station on DSM 5 and it doesn't seem to transcode any of my hi-res files when played back on my NDX, which is essential (I was a bit worried that it would downgrade them).
 
I haven't tried it with gapless playback yet, do you happen to know whether it works?
 
Conrad
 
 
Originally Posted by Bananahead:

Thanks.

 

DS Audio works nicely as a remote app but I have never tried it as a control point.

 

Posted on: 05 February 2014 by Adrian_P
Originally Posted by Conrad Winchester:
Thank you for putting me onto DS Audio - I have started playing with it and it seems to be really amazing - I had to enable UPnP/DLNA browsing for my account and suddenly it seems to be an excellent control point - even nicer than bubble UPnP. I am using version 5.2 of audio station on DSM 5 and it doesn't seem to transcode any of my hi-res files when played back on my NDX, which is essential (I was a bit worried that it would downgrade them).
I haven't tried it with gapless playback yet, do you happen to know whether it works?


Conrad, I also had a play with DS Audio but I'm still on DSM 4.3 (not brave enough to put the 5.0 beta on my NAS). DS Audio is clearly aimed at playback on mobile devices rather than high end streamers, but there are a couple of DS Audio transcoding enhancements in 5.0 that are worthwhile:

  •     Supports force transcoding of all formats, even those natively supported by Android devices (notably .FLAC).
  •     Streaming quality can be adjusted if your Synology NAS supports audio transcoding.

On 4.3, transcoding only happens if the renderer does not support the source format, so clicking the WAV transcode option does not force transcoding of FLACs to WAV for my Qute, since it natively supports FLAC, of course.

 

I tried gapless on 4.3 and it doesn't work very well. There's always a second or so interruption in playback between tracks. Perhaps this has also improved on 5.0.

 

Adrian

 

Posted on: 05 February 2014 by Bananahead

I am also not brave enough to put the DSM 5.0 beta on my NAS's yet (and because I have two identical NAS's in two locations that I want to keep in sync over the internet I am really happy with the features in 5.0).

 

Conrad, please can you file a beta bug report to Synology about the hi-res transcoding issue. Maybe even point them here so that they can see that a number of their customers want this feature.

Posted on: 05 February 2014 by Conrad Winchester

Hi Bananahead,

 

It's not an issue (sorry I didn't explain it well) - It's what I want. I want the file on my NAS to be the one that is played on my streamer :-) As far as I am aware the media server application will transcode high bitrate flac's to MP3 and you can't change that. DS Audio Station doesn't do that.

 

Conrad