Setting up Naim NDX - routers and wires questions!!

Why introducing a switch between the router and the NDX in the forst place?

I have my Uniti, NAS and Smart TV wired into Time Capsule, and another half a dozen devices connected to the TC wirelessly and I have no problems what soever with any device and network traffic.  All links are reliable and super fast.  The Uniti never drops off connection to iRadio or NAS.

Bobby

Timcapsule throughput speeds is nothing to write home about, but they are reliable..

Simply put a switch increases capacity. If you only have four ethernet devices, happy days stick with your router. If you have more you need a switch.

A switch is also useful for centralising wires. Your router is best placed near to the incoming connection to the house and/or the modem. The router wants to be connected to the modem with no switch in between.

So the switch for instance would be good in the loft, because you can the send ethernet from it to various points in the house (down the walls etc) to ethernet access ports tidying everything up.

So in short, 4 items that you will never expand upon, keep with router

More than 4 items, plus a switch into the router and use the switch (and indeed the other three ports on the router)

You need a router in your network

You cannot run a network with just a switch.

OMG thanks

that is the greatest post ever

I have a choice for a number of my devices, and chose to hard-wire them to my network (such as the Apple TV on which I watch streamed movies and streamed Netflix).  Simply not enough ports on the Time Capsule.

But I do believe (and happy to be told that I'm wrong), that a good switch can outperform the switch built-in (if you will) to a run-of-the-mill broadband modem/router/switch supplied by an ISP.  At some point that cheap thing must be pushing its limits with directing all that traffic . . .

Gary, correction, you only need a router if you connect to the internet or join networks together.

A simple home network not connected to the internet ONLY needs a switch (or hub).

however most home internet routers have a switch built in.

greg, you don't need to worry about it, but simplistically a hub allows only one device to use the network at a time. Everything has to wait and then try and grab the network for itself. This is similar to most wifi.

a switch allows multiple devices to share the network at the same time, and waiting only occurs if mutiple frames are heading to the same switch port. It's kind of like a single track country lane (hub) compared to a dual carriage way (switch).

Simon

Ok   I have to ask

What in the world is a home network that is NOT connected to the internet.

Do you connect your modem to your microwave?   

You COULD run a server and Naim player and n-Stream or the like without an internet connection.  It's a bit of an academic issue; there is more that you can't do than you can do in that mode . . . except, play music.

That's exactly how I run my system in our country home, where we are not connected to the internet. It's great, no emails, no forums to check on... just music at our fingertips.

Well, ya

And I could also play nothing at my house but Pablo Cruise for a year.

But I'm not gonna do that.

You could play anything on your server -- I am missing your point.

Neither is anyone recommending it; it's just the answer to your question, perhaps rhetorical, as to a home network that is not connected to the internet.  It's wholly suitable for playing music.

Yup. No misunderstood forum exchanges, no egos bruised, no righteous indignation, no self-doubting on choice of words. Yup, listening heaven.

I was just funnin

Thanks Guys :-)

Couple of more questions :

A ) Do wifi routers come with inbuilt " switches " or " hubs " ?

B) If they indeed come with switches, what is the need for an additional standalone switch ? Let's say, in my diagram, i was using a regular "cisco wifi router " instead of the "airport express + switch" - what is the difference then ?

You do not need  switch if your router has sufficient number of ethernet ports for hard wiring.  If it does not, use the switch to simply increase the number of devices you can hard wire.  Also, if your router is physically located far away from some devices, you can run an ethernet cable from the router to, say, another floor, and place a switch instead of another router - which is primarily the cost saving exercise.

Bobby

this comes back to my post of the 31st Jan, forget the airport express, replace your router with a decent one such as from asus. However depending on internet type you will need a little modem as well.

Guys - very helpful post.

In my new place, I experience a slower response when i choose a track on nstream (it says "connecting"..). I have ordered a new switch (Cisco 2960), but also wonder, if the router supplied by my cable provider can be an issue. Also I would like to secure that the network is as good/stable as possible.

Question: Does it make any difference if I use the router in the Cable-Modem supplied from my provider, or can it be better to only use the Cable-Modem, as a modem, and then use e.g. an Airport Extreme as router in the network. The modem is new to me as used a different provider in previous place.

Here is my current setup:

Storage-room:

Internet

     /

Netgear Cable-modem (CG3200; used as modem+router, wifi turned off)

     /

Netgear switch (Mini switch gigabit, cheap)

--> NAS (Synology DS713)

--> US SSD

--> Ethernet-cable to living room

    / (10 meters cable)

Living room:

Airport Extreme (latest version; WiFi network host)

   # Wireless connection (cannot run cable across living room)

Airport Express (latest version, WiFi bridge 2 meters from Airport Extreme; AirPlay digital out to NDS)

   /

NDS

Lars, it may be nothing more than that one wireless link.  To start I'd buy a length of ethernet cable and just run it along the floor to see if it performs better than the wireless.  If it does, you know the issue at least.

Bart, thanks for response. I had the same wireless link in my old place, where the Airports were even further apart, and did not have the issue then. Thus I thought could have something to do with the router. I will get a long ethernet cable to check!

Still very interested in any pointers re. routers per my question.

Thx

Lars

Lars I'm not familiar with those particular models, but the basic setup looks just right -- everything into an unmanaged switch, which is connected to the home router.

Just a little bit of clarification here - a router also (generally) gives out DHCP addresses to the devices on your local network whereas a switch doesn't.

All your devices on your local network need to be on the same address range to communicate so - although you don't *NEED* a router if you aren't connecting your network to the internet you would need to understand enough about IP addressing to ensure that all of your devices can talk to each other. Having a router on your network - even if it isn't being used to connect to the internet - is advantageous in that respect.

Similarly you can use nested routers to completely segregate off parts of your network if you need to do so but delving into that may make some peoples heads hurt and is rarely useful but if you have two DHCP servers on the same network by accident / mistake (which I have encountered a few times) then you will have a whole world of pain with devices sometimes seeing each other and sometimes not...

Cheers

Phil

Phil

Phil, your post made me go back and look at Lars' description.

Lars, make sure that the Airport Extreme is in "bridge mode."  In that mode it does not run a DHCP service, and will not assign its own IP addresses to connected devices.  Rather, all that work will be done by the home router.  As Phil says, if you have 2 routers each running DHCP, you'll have a tough go of it.  

I have a similar setup, and put the Airport Extreme into bridge mode. All ip addresses are assigned by the home router.

Bart - many thanks for helping out here. I really appreciate it! I find it extraordinary.

I did check and the Airport Extreme is actually in Bridge mode, i.e. router is disabled, but it creates the WiFI network in my place. I dont know, if it can create any conflict that the router does not create the WiFi network. Reason for letting the Airport extreme host the Wifi is to make sure that the Airport express connecting the NDS connects with the nearby Extreme and not the 10 meters away router. Does this make sense?

I implicitly get impression from Phil's response that a router is a driver of the networks performance as long as you have one almost no matter the quality. Thus I should try a better switch, and see how it goes.. Correct Phil?

Many thanks,

Lars

Phil, thanks for the correct clarification, and it's certainly fair to say I have not come across a consumer switch acting as a DHCP server.

Lars,  yes if not using DHCP, which means most likely not using a router,  then manually set the IP addresses within the same network, i.e. use the same network prefix (e.g. 192.168.1.X) and subnet mask (e.g. 255.255.255.0)  - and ensure X is different for every host on your network but ask on here if you want help. You don't need a router to have a performant network, but you do if you want to connect to the internet. 

if you have the AirportExpress and internet router, then let your internet router provide a DHCP scope, let your AE obtain its address from the internet router DHCP, and run the AE in bridge mode.. This way you will/should be fine.

Simon

Simon, many thanks - really helpful! To be sure, its the airport that is setup as bridge without dhcp - my cable modem functions as router with dhcp. So my setup is exactly as you outline in the last paragraph.

As I want internet access on the network, should I still go to fix IP then and get the cisco switch to get best nework setup? Thats what I take away from your post.

If yes, I have no idea how to setup fix ip adresses, and which of my above devices are 'hosts'. If there is anyway you could outline what i should do on which devices in above system layout, I would really appreciate it!

In return I can offer inputs on NDX/ndac/555 vs NDS/555dr, if you have any doubts on that topic :-)

Many thanks for all the great support on this forum,
Lars

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=fixed+ip+address