NDS without UnitiServe?

I don't have an NDS. I do have a SuperUniti, and I feed it files over a wired ethernet connection via a Macbook pro connected to a thunderbolt drive where all my flac files reside.

I guess I don't buy into the need for a Naim branded server... data is data. That said, I haven't heard a UnitiServe, so I could be wrong. My priorities and my upgrade dollars would be reserved for other bits of kit.

Hi JS,

I think its fair to say that, at least on these boards, there is considerable debate as to what benefits the US may offer as opposed to the various alternate NAS/server options in the market.

I have no personal experience of it and thus no firm view one way or the other, although there seems little doubt that it is a high quality ripping device.  Albeit that is really a separate issue.....

It would be interesting to hear the experiences of those have used both a US and other solutions, and also the observations/reviews of the hi-fi press, if any.

We use an HDX for no other reason than we've had it for years and it doesn't owe us anything. In combination with the NDS it's straightforward and hassle free. If we were starting from scratch now we wouldn't want to add the expense of a propitiatory ripper/server. There are many ways of achieving the same result. An added advantage of holding on to our old HDX is that it can play CDs (although I can't remember the last time I did) and it's a back up if the NDS fails. OK, that's really over specified redundancy but  since we had it already we didn't see the point in fixing what ain't broke. And as it happens, the NDS did need to go back to the factory once.

I have a UnitiServe, which I bought because I didn't want to use a computer to do the ripping. As to whether it sounds better than a NAS, I don't know. But if changing a 0.75m Ethernet cable makes a difference to the sound, and adding a linear power supply to the UnitiServe makes a difference, it would follow that using a Serve should sound different to playing directly from a NAS. Anyway, it looks quite cute with its wide smiley mouth.

Slightly OT - if the US fails (lets assume you have a backup or the SSD version) then are the ripped files usable by anything else ?

I don't use a Uniteserve as I do the ripping on PC. I have QNAP as NAS and it's sounds fantastic. Can't imagine that the Unitiserve would provide a better sound.

US SSD version here, it appears it is each to their own, some enjoy ripping manually and having the input and creating their libraries, me I paid for the easy life and used as a server/source. 

Just got my UnitiServe today.  It doesn't exactly replace the QNAP I got 15 months ago - that's still connected to the network, but once I have ripped onto the US the QNAP will be used for backup only

I got the US because I didn't want to consider NDS without having one - I have not enjoyed the ripping process (via dbpoweramp through windows forced to run on my mac... I think "hateful" would be a good word!) and so far am delighted at how easy the US ripping process is.  And pleased with the results too - the installing dealer did some moving about of my SBLs (wider apart) and after a dem I chose a new mains block (Heretik - not sure of spelling - very good) and new speaker cable (frees up the NACA5 for loft/UQ/nSat duty) which gave a helpful boost to the sound quality.  The overall quality is very pleasing indeed.

It was only when I was thinking of moving the US to the loft for ripping duties that I realised that the nd5xs (555-powered) had been playing from the US wirelessly - and sounded very good indeed (the 30m of cat5 cable was connected from the US to the router in the loft but the nd5xs was still running wirelessly) so unfortunately I remain unconvinced of the need to dig holes in the wall...

[Mind you, it sounded even better with some Shahinian Obelisk speakers in place of the SBL's - the dealer trying to tempt me for the future as he sees the SBLs as the bottleneck in the system and worthy of upgrade before going to NDS]

The editing of metadata and album art via n-serve on the US is beautifully simple - kind of wish I had gone for this sooner really and not bothered with NAS, though I may one day be happy for backup duties that will be served by that...

Edited to add that music into the UQ in the loft has never sounded this good - that is wired in from US (v previously wired in from QNAP) though I have not undertaken any controlled tests (e.g. trying again from QNAP) which I need to do before forming a proper opinion...

I normally stream music from my UnitiServe SSD to my NDS, however as reported on another thread here, the UnitiServe went wrong during the week and had to be returned to my dealer for repair.

In the interim, I'm streaming music (both HD and UnitiServe ripped CDs) directly from my Synology NAS in the interim, and whilst the music still sounds good, it definitely sounds different compared to when streaming from the UnitiServe.....almost like a veil has gone down in front of the speakers.

So, to my ears at least, the UnitiServe appears to have a positive influence on sound quality of the NDS.

George

Wait till you hear it with a decent power supply......

And it even sounds good with a SuperUniti.

It really doesn't 

Tog

I'm one of the early UnitiServe adopters, and I'm coming around to Tog's view.

My latest review projet is a RIP-NAS-PLAY server using VortexBox (VB) that rips to FLAC on an internal 2TB WD Red HDD (3 or 4TB optional). Logitech Media Server (LMS) is the playback software. Output is via USB. The unit runs on an external 12V switching supply. 

The unit also rips DVD audio and video, and BluRay (with purchase of a license). Essentially all types of file are played up to 384 kHz, and DSD (.dff) files are supported. Optional software includes Bit Torrent, Bliss, Plex, and Subsonic.

Control is through free or purchased apps running on Android or Apple tablets or phones / pods.

Using the HiFace USB to S/PDIF converter to feed the Naim DAC, then the SuperNait 2 into the Amphion Argon 3 speakers, after two weeks, I've narrowed the sonic differences down (they're slight) to the differences between FLAC (VB) and WAV (U/S) files, rather than differences between the units.

To my ears, FLAC files have a slighter softer presentation than WAV. The leading edge of transients are ever so slightly blunted. It remains an engaging presentation, but misses out on some rawness and edge that WAV files capture better. Because of the transient blunting, subtle timing information can be less clear on FLACs.

That said, I could certainly live with the FLAC presentation, and if I'd never lived with WAV playback, probably wouldn't know the difference. FLACs are just a little easier on the ears.

The linear PS that I use on the U/S also lifts the performance of the VortexBox unit.

The server experience lives or dies on the user interface. In this case, I was using iPeng on an iPad, and while not as slick as nServe, it does the job, I got to like it and could live with it. Going back to nServe, though, I realize just how blazingly fast it is, and how good the U/S is in aggregating all sources (the U/S picked up the VB server immediately) into one coherent library.

VB ripping is slower than the U/S (10 minutes on average) and indexing is daily, although a scan can be forced.

The VB unit is a third of the price of the U/S and does require quite a bit more effort in setup, but overall is a convincing package.

@HH: I agree - the stuff I didn't like about the SU when I had it at home - it 'never opened up', it was 'slow sounding' etc. might have been cured with the UnitiServ, strange as it seems. Adding the UnitiServ to my current system seems to cause a 'delta' that if applied to the sound of the SU back then might have taken it in the right direction. My local dealer did demo the UnitiServe back then - but it didn't do much that night. The SU was just two days old... dunno. That ship has sailed...  

@Tog: I can hear the difference between two unitiservs depending on where they are on the network - and also a maxed out PC.

Now, I'm not saying that the VotexBox at a fraction of the price might not be better or as good. (Haven't heard it, and honestly don't care). - I'm just saying that

a) the cabling in my walls sucks big time!

b) the UnitiServe beats my PC.

For b) - I hung the PC, UnitServe and a NDX against the same switch. The NDX fed by the UnitiServ had a much lower noise floor than the NDX fed by the PC, with everything turned on at the same time. I had actually complained about this a few times - when I noticed that the music fed by optical out of the PC was better than streaming - due to noise floor issues...

This was the first time I was actually happy with the NDX - and (sorry to say this to analogmusic, the NDX does beat the Dac-V1, with the caveat that I would add the price of the UnitiServe to the NDX and consider that the source). The NDX is on it's way out though - Don't need a classic series source for a second system, and my TT at 1/2 the price still beats the NDX.

Unfortunately, what all that means is that I'll now need linear PSUs for both the switch and the UnitiServ, since they're on the same powersupply as the naim system.

Just to comment about UPnP server sound quality. As commented a few times elsewhere on this forum, I have and a few others have definitely noticed that UPnP servers do sound different when streaming to network players. (I noticed this first with my dealer about 3 years ago and has persisted through streamer board and firmware upgrades)

From a SQ point of view I have noticed the current best sounding UPnP servers are in descending order 

1. (Joint) Unitiserve / RaspberryPi running Asset

2. WHSv1 on an Assus micro server running Asset

3. HP PC running Win 7 running Asset and various other UPnP server programmes.

I can only assume this is driven by TCP parameters (such as window sizes) on the various stacks interacting with the network player's streaming card, I have yet to formally measure this...

The NAS so far seems to have no noticeable difference if separated from the UPnP server.

Simon

with all respect - I don't understand.

The TCP IP stream is buffered into the NDS streamer.

why would it make any difference?

I do understand the leakage from the "noisy" smps. But beyond that?

I mean even if there is a difference, is it worth the price of a Unitiserve? (this is not a skeptical question).

I purchased a synology NAS and it works fine, what difference with this and US?

Would I not be better off spending the money on a real source like a network streamer or a Dac?

Incidentally that's exactly what I did with the DAC V1 which I am enjoying hugely, driven by a Squeezebox touch through USB. The nice thing about USB input is that you can see the buffer through the front panel (i,e, how much it is being filled up, live) and hopefully the audiophilleo software should be getting rid of these last TCP IP parameters?

At some point I would need to add a linear PSU to the touch. 

If its the TCP parameters driving this within the TCP/IP stack, then some of us are perhaps hearing the interaction of the TCP protocol machine sending and receiving its TCP windowing and flow control  signalling (which is of course is driven into the bidirectional frames and then physically encoded on the wire)  which is established between peers - in this case the Network player and UPnP server (irrespective of what is in between on a home LAN)

Is the difference worth the US - I don't think I can answer that. Is the difference enough to close my other servers down for Naim streaming duties , and use a dedicated RaspberryPI for my Naim UPnP - you bet!

Now I expect the same thing to happen with async audio over USB. Here the parameters will be driven by the USB peering chipset and drivers - I have yet to look in to this.