Cyclists see Roads from Lorry Drivers' Viewpoint

It's both. I enjoy it as a recreation, but I also commute by bike. If there is snow on the road, or icy, I take the bus. This happens a few days a year. Rain does not bother me in the slightest. I have driven to work just once in the past 10 years. I get the privilege to do this because of CHOICES I have made. These include the choices to study, work hard, live where we do etc. We could live in a bigger house further from town, but we choose not to. We choose a smaller place that allows less car dependence (at least for me. My wife drives a LOT).

I do feel that the car is a luxury. I lived for years without one. Now, with a family, it makes life easier than without, but we'd be able to cope without it (but not without some lifestyle effects).

Thank you.

I am both a car driver and a casual cyclist. As a driver I try and treat cyclists with the respect that they deserve. ( and yes I am not being polite ). As a cyclist I try and stay as far away as possible from any and all motorists.

I choose to walk to work. I try and ignore the cyclists on the pavement and attempt to make eye contact with motorists whenever I cross a road.

Referring back to the topic subject, which I take to be informing cyclists of the dangers of being close to lorries on the public highways, I have lifted the following quote from a Cycle To... piece on Broadgate Estate's Cycle to Mipim site:

Dear Peter,

Given the rising numbers of cyclists, perhaps it is time for a new campaign for the Cycling Proficiency Test again. It could be done through schools and community centres, and perhaps it is a job for the Cycle Touring Club of Great Britain [CTC] in conjunction with HMG?

The CTC does a huge amount of behind the scenes work including setting up cycle paths and so on, as well as offering a good insurance policy for cyclists. It also has been lobbying for improved facilities for cyclists for most of a century. Their web-page is mine of information for cyclists on almost any cycling related topic.

ATB from George

Clearly the most likely person to be injured in an accident between an motorist and cyclist is generally the cyclist but what I was saying that another road user could be injured as the result of a cyclist weaving about, not paying attention, wearing ear phones or just plain dangerous riding.

I saw one the other day riding up the inside of a line of cars at speed then shout and swear at the car driver when the car indicated left at the junction.  The cyclist undertook right on the junction and if he'd shouted and sworn at me the way he did the lady driver it wouldn't have been the car he'd have to worry about.

Really? You'd beat someone up for the way they rode their bicycle, or for what they yelled out?

Northpole's post is well considered.

These days, the transport industry has started using the term "Threat and Error Management". I think it used to be called "common sense" !

There are occasional TV campaigns to remind motorists of the dangers they pose to cyclists and bikers. Network Rail have run campaigns about the dangers of misuse by motorists and pedestrians at level crossings. However, most of the time as individuals, we are unable to influence the behaviour of others with regard to our own safety. The "Threat and Error Management" is then more effective if it is aimed at our selves . Making us aware of the threats we face and the errors we oursevels are liable to make.

This is what I think the Crossrail initiative was about. And I think that all cyclists would be well advised to consider investing time and (if necessary) money in Threat and Error Management training courses for cyclists. This is what I had in mind above, when I suggested training, along the lines of the current motorcyclist training programme.

I'll stick my neck out and suggest it should be mandatory.  

Just like Newbury this morning - immediately after a single cyclist did an unsignalled, left carriageway-to-right to cut across all the trafic to make a right turn in front of the on-comming traffic. He escaped, giving an isulting wave (middle finger upward move) at the carnage he saw ensuing behind as he made his way down an open, unobstrcted road at high speed............

....ok, I know, i'm exagerating, unlike you

I just spent a few minutes touring Newbury on Google streetview. Lots and lots of cars, but I only spotted one bike on an otherwise empty street (apart from many parked cars). I really didn't see any evidence that Newbury is a centre for slow cycling, or that anything was holding up cars other than other cars.

The Google camera team don't do street tours starting at 07:20 on a Monday morning when those eight cyclists, at 5 minute intervals, force the motor traffic to patiently drive behind them at less than 10mph...............

Wow.

I just spent a few minutes touring Vernon on Google. Hardly any cars, and no real bikes, but........

Starting several years ago, I have been impeded quite e few times on my journey from Preditor Ridge to Vernon Airport by hoardes of cyclists who congregate at the junction of Preditor Ridge Drive/Commonage Road in order to race each other down the Commonage Road, into Vernon, then back along Highway 97 to Bailey Road and Commonage Road back to Preditor Ridge Drive.

It must have been the same Google Earth team that shot Vernon as what shot Newbury.........the team with the bike-free lens !

Do car drivers who hit cyclists after not seeing them use the famous "bike-free lenses?"

ATB from George

Better give Vernon the miss this year on 4th May, 8th June and 20/21st September, due to ..............cyclists !!

You could get e bike and join in if you have a sportive spirit!

ATB from George

What wonderful world you live in where cyclists are everywhere and cars don't get in your way.

Here in Vancouver, we're not so lucky. Traffic hold ups are universally caused by cars. That is to say, traffic causes itself. Bikes don't really come into play in any meaningful way.

I live just off Marine Drive in West Vancouver, perhaps the most popular cycling route in the city. It is also just two lanes and has many curves. It is a fairly main road into and out of the city, especially during commuting times. In spite of this, I have yet to see a car impeded for more than a few seconds by a cyclist, and certainly no queues of of "patient motorists". But quite a few impatient, distracted, unsafe and annoyed motorists, to be sure.

......a quick scan of the Google Earth site from West Vancouver, Marine Drive, Lions Gate Br, West Gergia, Robson and Burrard St but nope ! I can't find this particular junction or anything like that traffic - not even the occasional cyclist (must have been your day off ?)

But I did spot the remains of a small aircarft in a garden just east of the Lions Gate Bridge approach road, just opposite where Bridge Road Joins Lions Gate Bridge Road ! Optomistic or pessimistic commuter ?

Bloody cyclists!

A cyclist, not paying attention, must have made him swerve ....

My initial post highlighted a specific cycle awareness course run by Crossrail and The Met. Those who attended included many riders who considered themselves very experienced and competent riders. most of these riders were surprised at what they learned (ie didn't know previously)

I presume that most riders on this forum consider themselves experienced and competent and wonder whether they have undertaken any formal training and would advocate others to do likewise ?

A quick Google brought up a "CTC" website which included a training section called Bikeability with three levels of training on offer. Are such courses effective and adequate ? or do we need more initiatives like the Crossrail one as well.

 Bikeability is a national course syllabus with three separate levels:

Level 1 gives you the cycling skills to begin riding on the road.

Level 2 provides the basic riding skills to deal with traffic on your route along quieter roads.

Level 3 provides you with sufficient skills to ride comfortably on any road that you want. It is tailored to  your needs and requirements.

I've done a bit of training. I've done a race clinic, but that was mostly about dealing with other cyclists in a tight bunch. I've also done motorcycle training which is good for general road strategy when not surrounded by a metal cage.

Level 1 - Yep, we mostly figured that out before we were 10. But OK, if it gets more people onto bikes, great.

Level 2 - "deal with traffic"? Traffic pretty much deals with us as it sees fit. The issue of lorries squashing cyclists on the inside of left-turns in the UK (especially in London) is a real one. Cyclists need to know that risk and avoid it until it can be engineered out. Removing all those anti-jaywalking iron fences that infest parts of London (i.e. dead cyclist anvils) might be a good start. You don't really see them elsewhere in the world.

Level 3 - "ride comfortably". Actually, no. I want to be somewhat uncomfortable and therefore careful when potentially dealing with negligence behind the wheel of 2 tonnes of metal. I don't really want to be too comfortable at all. Appropriately nervous, perhaps. I know who'll lose if I let a car hit me.

But really, I'd rather invest in training the people who are creating the danger in the first place.