Cyclists see Roads from Lorry Drivers' Viewpoint

Posted by: Don Atkinson on 27 February 2014

 

 

Almost everyone who got behind the wheel of a heavy goods vehicle at the London Bike Show said that they intend to change the way they cycle, due to the experience.

 

 

More than 850 cyclists took part in ‘Exchanging Places’ run by Crossrail and the Metropolitan Police Service, which allowed them to see the road from a lorry driver’s point of view. The event allowed cyclists to get a better understanding of what drivers can and cannot see. Most were unaware of the size of blind spots from inside the driver’s cab.

 

The above is an abstract from a recent event held in London, organised by Crossrail and the Met.

 

I typed "Crossrail Exchanging Places" into Google to get more details

 

 

 

Posted on: 03 March 2014 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by winkyincanada:

But really, I'd rather invest in training the people who are creating the danger in the first place.

How ? and how much ? and what % of motoists do you consider need such training ?

 

For example,I don't think that I need any more such training.

 

I'm not dismissing your suggestion, just exploring the realities.

Posted on: 03 March 2014 by George J

If I may join in, I call dangerously inattentive drivers as high as one in a hundred on any given day. No doubt on a different day it will be a completely different one in a hundred. 

 

ALL drivers need to be trained even if it is only fifty percent who fail on any of fifty given days.

 

ATB from George

Posted on: 03 March 2014 by Don Atkinson

......just to lighten things up (for a change), one of our cars (Mrs D and I simply share our vehicles) which we have had for many years, incorporates the Licence Plate letters "WMD", which was a well-recognised acronymn both before and during Gulf War II...............packs of racing cyclists beware !!

Posted on: 03 March 2014 by George J

Don!

 

 

ATB from George

 

I had a Rover 2000 [my first car in 1979] with the number JEU 989 J. No doubt a banker's car originally.

 

And my first Volvo 240 was numbered D 650 RAW ...  think about it! It must have been a rasta car!

 

My little nissan Micra is R +++ NAD. If I Kev'ed it, it would be a Gonad!

 

Posted on: 03 March 2014 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by winkyincanada:
The issue of lorries squashing cyclists on the inside of left-turns in the UK (especially in London) is a real one. Cyclists need to know that risk and avoid it until it can be engineered out. Removing all those anti-jaywalking iron fences that infest parts of London (i.e. dead cyclist anvils) might be a good start. You don't really see them elsewhere in the world.

 

I think that many, if not most, of those railings have been removed.

Posted on: 03 March 2014 by George J

The rails are still there in Worcester, including new ones [2013] in Lowesmoor, my Street ...

 

A deathtrap if ever ...

 

ATB from George

Posted on: 03 March 2014 by Don Atkinson

So what's your self-preservation (*) strategy, George ? Bearing in mind you don't know which 1% of the motoring fraternaty are out to get you tomorrow !!

 

(*) Threat and Error Management in new-speak !

Posted on: 03 March 2014 by George J

Get off and walk. This tends to work though no doubt that the double width of pushing a cycle on the pavement is just as inconvenient for other pedestrians as a mama with a double buggy!

 

ATB from George

 

PS: I never ride down Lowemoor. It is one dangerous street. Even the Zebra-crossing is a true gamble ...

Posted on: 03 March 2014 by winkyincanada
Originally Posted by Don Atkinson:
Originally Posted by winkyincanada:
The issue of lorries squashing cyclists on the inside of left-turns in the UK (especially in London) is a real one. Cyclists need to know that risk and avoid it until it can be engineered out. Removing all those anti-jaywalking iron fences that infest parts of London (i.e. dead cyclist anvils) might be a good start. You don't really see them elsewhere in the world.

 

I think that many, if not most, of those railings have been removed.

That's great news.

Posted on: 03 March 2014 by winkyincanada
Originally Posted by Don Atkinson:
Originally Posted by winkyincanada:

But really, I'd rather invest in training the people who are creating the danger in the first place.

How ? and how much ? and what % of motoists do you consider need such training ?

 

For example,I don't think that I need any more such training.

 

I'm not dismissing your suggestion, just exploring the realities.

That's the thing about driving. All of us are above average, aren't we?

 

But it's a fair question. I don't actually think it is skill that is lacking, but judgement and risk awareness. When a motorist speeds, they don't think they are creating a hazard. When they roll through a stop sign, talk on their phone, drive too close, or shoot a late orange/red, they think it will be just fine. This is by definition, or they wouldn't do it. If they see these actions from a position where they're not surrounded by a metal protective cage and they might judge the risk they create differently.

 

It would be good for drivers to be able to see things from a cyclist's perspective. When we are cut off, right-hooked or passed too closely etc., it isn't just inconvenient, it is damn scary. We sometimes react impulsively with shouting and cursing, but we're really just frightened.

Posted on: 04 March 2014 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by winkyincanada:
Originally Posted by Don Atkinson:
Originally Posted by winkyincanada:

But really, I'd rather invest in training the people who are creating the danger in the first place.

How ? and how much ? and what % of motoists do you consider need such training ?

 

For example,I don't think that I need any more such training.

 

I'm not dismissing your suggestion, just exploring the realities.

That's the thing about driving. All of us are above average, aren't we? Well, half of us are !! Its just knowing which half you're in and being sure you're always in that half. But I would agree that we need to raise the standard of the "average" driver (and cyclist) both in skill and Threat and Error Management

 

But it's a fair question. I don't actually think it is skill that is lacking, but judgement and risk awareness. On this, I think we are agreed, I call it "Common Sense" others call it "Threat and Error Management" and it applies to motorists and cyclists alike. The Crossrail team recognised a particular threat possed by their construction vehicles in London. They decided to do several things to manage these threats. First, they raised the awareness of their Conrtactors' drivers with awareness courses, second they insisted that all their contractors must fit their vehicles with the latest mirrors, side guards etc and thirdly they set up the awareness days for cyclists that I mentioned in my opening post.

 

 When a motorist speeds (I don't. I drive to suit the road and traffic conditions), they don't think they are creating a hazard. When they roll through a stop sign (I don't but I have seen others who do), talk on their phone (I don't, but.....), drive too close (I don't, but....), or shoot a late orange/red (I don't, but.........), they think it will be just fine (I agree, it isn't, but......). This is by definition, or they wouldn't do it. If they see these actions from a position where they're not surrounded by a metal protective cage and they might judge the risk they create differently (perhaps all new driving courses should include a mandatory cycling course ? or possibly made to watch appropriate videos and answer questions ?). More new TV campaigns to raise awareness in existing drivers and cyclists ?

 

It would be good for drivers to be able to see things from a cyclist's perspective. When we are cut off, right-hooked or passed too closely etc., it isn't just inconvenient, it is damn scary. We sometimes react impulsively with shouting and cursing, but we're really just frightened.

 So, How do we invest in training motorists and cyclists. How much will it cost. Where do we target this training ?

 

These questions are not directed specifically at you, Winky? Others can contribute.

Posted on: 10 March 2014 by winkyincanada

http://www.collectorsweekly.co...les/murder-machines/

 

I'll just leave this here.

Posted on: 11 March 2014 by Don Atkinson

Interesting. A bit tedious and dry, but non-the-less readable.

 

I liked the bit at the end “The real battle is for people’s minds, and this mental model of what a street is for. There’s a wonderful slogan used by some bicyclists that says, ‘We are traffic.’

 

I also liked a bit at the begining that said licensing drivers was introduced to give them legitimacy in the use of the roads.

 

Pity the article didn't suggest proper training, licensing and some form of road access charge based on occupancy for both motorists and cyclists.

 

I understand that following a particulary horrific death involving two young women in Southampton recently, the UK government is considering new criminal offences that would attract much harsher sentancing of those convicted of irrisponsible driving.