Russians in Ukraine

The mood is so different in the UK that they followed the US into Libya in March 2011. Another regime change that the UK just had to be part of.

2011 military intervention in Libya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The US has been on a regime change campaign since 911, and the UK has been complicit. Look what retired US General Wesley Clark has to say...

Wes Clark and the neocon dream - Salon.com

Note that this article was written by Glenn Greenwald.

BBM

Dear CRMF,

I think you will find that France and the UK led that campaign, and the US tagged along!

GB getting rid of Gaddafi has been an aim of the UK since he sent henchmen to London to kill normal Police Officers on the streets of our capitol city, let alone the Locherbie catastrophe. I am sure that the enthusiastic French [not always the people you think of as the USA's closest ally] had similar reasons, and I doubt anyone much regrets the Libyan change of government, not even the Russians!

ATB from George

George

That's just what the US wanted the world to think. They fooled you again with their propaganda.

The US administration could not sell yet another war to the American people, so they made it look like they only took on a supporting role.

Gaddafi wanted to establish a gold backed currency for the Middle East and North Africa called the Dinar. It would have seriously undermined the US petrodollar, and that's why the US wanted him dead.

You really should find a new source for World news. You have been mislead yet again, and it's starting to make you look bad...

ATB

BBM

PS: Using CRMF instead of CFMF is really childish. Please try to act like an adult if you can.

If you like independent journalism you have to move to Finland, Netherlands or Norway:

http://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php

UK is on rank 33 (lost 3 ranks) behind Lithuania, Suriname and Portugal. This may have to do with how the british government behaved during the Snowden affair (destroying hard disks at the Guardian's HQ) and other things.

US rank is 46 (lost 13 ranks).

However Russia ranks on place 148, so press "freedom" there is in an entirely different league.

"PS: Using CRMF instead of CFMF is really childish. Please try to act like an adult if you can."

Sorry - on my post I did that my accident.  Not sure if there is something inferred from the difference in letters, but as for me nothing was intended other than getting it from another post, or poor eyesight. (Can't remember...that was a seemingly inconsequential event from yesterday.)  Again, sorry.

Dear CFMF,

I apologise for offending with a mis-spelling of your Forum name. I wear extremely strong reading glasses, which I find quite tiring. Therefore I use my normal distance glasses [also a powerful prescription] sitting about four feet from the computer monitor. This does bring with it the risk of occasional mistakes. Sorry for you being offended.

That was the first point.

The second is by no means so gentle.

You say I have been duped. I call that rude. You need to gives sources for the proof of your assertions. Please don't quote Wikipedia as there is absolutely no way that it can be regarded as authoritative when the authors are not credited. and please don't link to articles by conspiracy theorist style journalists unknown in the UK.

I find that where there is an interesting and important news story the way to gain a hold on what is going on is to rely on the BBC for immediate coverage, and then next day read the Telegraph and the Guardian. These two papers have a very different take, but both are worthy and serious newspapers that report without fear on events, and without a hint of cow-towing to the UK government or indeed any government abroad.

ATB from George

I must say, whether intended or not, he doesn't do himself any favours does he..?

I think that CFMF is questioning his authority on the subject, by his failure to reply ...

Thanks, James ...

ATB from George

George,

I only wish to make two points...

1. When it comes to World events, I prefer to read the news from a wide variety of sources. This allows for critical thinking, which I believe is a very important learned life skill. At the end of the day, so to speak, I can then decide for myself what to believe.

If you only want to read the British perspective, then that's fine, but just remember that you may not get the full story.

2. The first casualty of war is the truth, which I believe also applies in this situation. Both sides promote their own rhetoric, and that's exactly what is happening with the reportage regarding the Ukraine.

Food for thought.

BBM

Dear CFMF,

I quite agree about a variety of sources, and in some cases I have followed news stories in the Norwegian press - i am half Norwegian - so know which parers are brave.

On the other hand you need not fear for my ability to think in a critical style.

What is going on in the Ukraine is really not clear, even, or perhaps especially, if you look ar Russian reporting.

Historically speaking, there is no reason why the Crimea is classed as part of the Ukraine today except for politics during the Soviet era. Naturally the Russians want to look after their own, and in that part of the World things are more robustly done than further West.

I do believe that the current situation will lead to a break-up of the current Ukraine in a fashion quite like the former Yugoslavia. I hope that this can be managed without a bloodbath first ...

ATB from George

This is definitely the way to go.

Of all the world news programs available in the UK, I find the Japanese (NHK World) to the the most even handed.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/

BBC News 24 is a joke, it's quite often more like an entertainment than news program.

I don't watch television.

There is more of news value in the first three minutes of the Radio Four Six O'clock News than an hour on any TV news bulletin.

ATB from George

I don't watch television.

There is more of news value in the first three minutes of the Radio Four Six O'clock News than an hour on any TV news bulletin.

Absolutely. And you can get on with something else whilst listening.

The ironing!

I have not pressed anything for 14 years!

ATB from George

For me it's cooking. Radio is the quickest and simplest means of catching up on the news, especially for AUDIOphiles. However, I take CFMF's view about taking wider sources. The Economist and the Week are great for a fuller 360 perspective as they have time to assimilate and digest the NEWs.

So now the West is claiming that a referendum on Crimean citizens voting on whether to go with Russia is "unconstitutional."

That must be an interesting constitution, since it apparently allows removal by force of a democratically elected president (albeit a thief) but not allow a semi-autonomous region to vote for its own destiny.  I mean, it MUST say that because no Western politician could possibly be THAT hypocritical.  Especially not Kerry, McCain, Merkel, Obama, et al - they are all people of high integrity.

Seriously - what is constitutional about the current Ukrainian "government"?

I guess the message is "we favor democracy, but only if you vote the way we like."  Kind of like Ireland with the Lisbon Treaty referendum in 2008.  They voted against it so they were made to hold another referendum in 2009 to pass it.

America sinks lower every week...and no, it is NOT because of Obama.  The same hypocrisy would be in place otherwise, he's just the toad du jour.

Here's a timeline of events in the Ukrainian coup, with some interesting comments on the MSM...

A Chronology of the Ukrainian Coup | Common Dreams

BBM

Oh, and speaking of Nuland...look up who her husband is, and then look up which organization he co-founded with whom.

I know Mark, she's none other than Mrs. Robert Kagan of PNAC fame. True scum. Kristol and his new Foreign Policy Initiative bunch should all be up on charges of treason.

BBM

Then there's the hypocrisy of the MSM and the US administration...

Putin or Kerry: Who’s Delusional? | Common Dreams

Interesting times indeed.

BBM

Here's an article explaining the energy pipeline aspect of the Ukraine crisis...

Ukraine crisis is about Great Power oil, gas pipeline rivalry

A couple of years back, Assad in Syria denied Qatar the right to run a natural gas pipeline through Syria and Turkey, and into the southern part of Europe. This gas pipeline would have been in direct competition with Russia's North Stream pipeline and would have undercut Russia's pseudo monopoly over gas sales to Europe. When Assad said "No", he went to the top of the "regime change" list in the US/Nato alliance. Of course, the US sent operatives to Syria to destabilize the country, and when Assad tried to quell the civil unrest he was demonized by the compliant MSM in the US. We all know how close the Obama Administration came to starting yet another war in the Middle East, and if Putin hadn't brokered a deal with Syria to confiscate it's chemical weapons, we would have had a war that threatened to destabilized the whole area. WW3 anybody?

BBM

Paranoic fantasies? That's really funny. Read some articles on the Web and educate yourself.

I'll even do you the favour of a Google search, now all you have to do is click and read...

syria qatar gas - Google Search

BBM

My point is that the MSM in the West is nothing more than a propaganda machine.

BBM

An interesting development. The USS Truxtan enters the Black Sea...

U.S. Navy destroyer heads to Black Sea for pre-planned exercises | Reuters

Pure coincidence?

BBM

Dear CFMF,

Who knows?

I thought you were up on all this stuff, and another internet search should give you chapter and verse on the undoubted truth of what is going on.

I expect the Russians will soon have an explanation in any case.

ATB from George