Server power supplies

Have now fitted the TP power supply as suggested all I can say is wow and having herd the difference two of my friends are now ordering

Excellent. It really is rather amazing how it can make a difference, but it certainly does. Have you tried Audioquest Ethernet cables yet? They are another thing that is not 'supposed' to make a difference. Highly recommended.

Richard, thanks for posting your experience, interested to understand more.... You have quite a music system which should be very revealing!

 

 

Where is your Unitiserve physically positioned wrt your NDS, is it on the same power spur?

Do you have a US hdd or ssd? How is it networked?

 

And can you give any description of the benefits experienced?

 

Thanks in advance...

Hi my serve is on same circuit and adjacent to NDS, connection between switch, 2TB Serve and NDS are cat 6. I have not tried Audioquest cables but sounds like I should. This is day 3 and it's wonderful not that it wasn't before!! Im a little surprised that I have had to turn to a non Naim supplier to get this result from the Serve! 

The other two streamers in the house are on cat5e and their is a notable lift in the sound from them.

Thanks Richard. The effect on your other remote systems (longer distance ethernet) is particularly interesting, its not just a local effect.  Jan-Erik had previously reported this too.

 I too find it disappointing that Naim haven't addressed the issue earlier. I've been advised that NDS operates optimally when it has a Naim server upstream. (I guess this is via UPnP discovery triggering optimised 'compatibility mode' code in the NDS lowering noise floor).  Its the reason I'm holding onto my US-SSD rather than moving to a commodity UPnP server, otherwise US is quite an expensive packet relay.  I do appreciate US user convenience, but this is only software.  The downside is being locked into a proprietary device that doesn't currently support significant other market standards like Airplay. So many users may have to do two servers anyway.....

Naim US agents Pro Musica locally developed a replacement for Ken Christiansen (recording engineer). I'm told Salisbury are working on something, but progress does seem rather glacial.  The issue isn't new, and has probably been the source of more contention than any Naim product I can remember in two decades.

I think Naim really need a clear product plan and commitment around their Server category, its had little development since 2010. As you've demonstrated the UPnP Transport is a significant part of the audio chain, not all IP packets are equal!

I agree customers with investments like yours should not have to resort to 3rd parties to overcome essential product limitations, or Naim could publish a UPnP spec for optimising their system's performance?

Oh really?  I assume that someone from Pro Musica told you that the NDS sounded best with Naim RIPs, and that this "compatibility mode" is your own...speculation?

Thank you for clarifying your statement.

Hook

Sorry 40 Below, but I think you are going to be disappointed.  The idea that an NDS is optimized for a US rip, but not for the identical 3rd-party rip, is just not logical.  There would be no technical basis for doing this. As a result, you are suggesting is that this it is a marketing decision whose goal is to artificially boost US sales. IME, Naim is better than that.

Lastly, neither running Asset on Raspberry Pi, not Naim's ongoing efforts to optimize their streamer code, have anything to do with this. I totally agree that Naim are obsessed with maximizing sound quality, but I seriously doubt they would consider doing as you suggest. At a very minimum, if they did, this behavior would be documented somewhere (either in a product reference manual or white paper), and it is not.

ATB.

Hook

Hi Hook

Thanks for your comments, but you've misinterpreted what I was saying.

I was referring to the in- house developed UPnP server code which is mentioned in the Naim server white papers. Service Discovery is a standard UPnP mechanism. A streamer can use this to determine its remote partners available methods, and invoke corresponding specific functions. Please take a look at wikipedia or similar references. Perfectly standard UPnP client-server negotiation.

 Would you please edit & correct your previous post accordingly?

Is this a mechanism Naim actually use or as Hook says above just speculation ?

Below 40,

No need for Hook to edit anything. You seem to incorrectly assume that all UPnP servers are the same. They aren't. The UPnP protocol is just that, a protocol. It doesn't mean that all devices will work optimally together. Just that they will work.  Similar to an ISO quality specification. Doesn't mean that a company or product is any good, just means that it conforms to a particular standard (sometimes a poor one).

A Wikipedia citation is also not a great basis to challenge assertions made from an experienced viewpoint. And Hook is particularly well experienced (some may say old- but never to his face)

Andy

Not methods and functions, but supported MIME types, in a preset order.  There is nothing proprietary about this-standard UPnP AV....

Dave -

Thanks for confirming!

40 Below -

Dave used to be Naim USA's go-to technical guy.  When dealers needed to know how something worked, they'd call him.

Andy -

Guilty as charged...chronologically speaking that is...   Cheers!

Hook

that and WAY more.  (national sales mgr, dealer, etc)  He is the wisest man around.  Only surpassed in wit by Adam Meredith.

There are numerous recent threads around optimising streaming performance, its very topical.  And various strong opinions - from ‘all Ethernet bits are the same’ through to ‘every improvement makes a clear difference’.  I sense it’s a still-maturing area of experience.

Firstly, I’d like to reinforce that I never intended to imply Naim was doing anything proprietary, but with a known source there might be optimisations possible.  Unfortunately some misunderstanding developed momentum around this. 

[the UPnP Architecture v2 specification does state UPnP is “independent of any content format and transfer protocol”, ie “out-of-band”, and Naim is fastidious around UPnP Server and streamer code optimisations].

What triggered my comments was advice received:

“UnitiServe is an integral part of the musical replay, even with an NDS in place.  Think of the Serve as the transport - Naim UPnP server is better than Asset UPnP.  You won’t hear an NDS at its best without a Serve.” 

I’d been trying to understand the value of using a $4k US-SSD purely as a UPnP server, rather than UPnP on a Mac Mini or NAS as many do.  My gut feel was to trade both my US+DAC towards an NDS as a significantly more musical and future-proof source, and to substitute a more flexible / open / inexpensive UPnP server solution.  Seemed common-sense....

However, this advice left me feeling committed to retain the UServe-SSD as a ‘no compromise’ UPnP server for my future NDS [source-first rules].  At the same time feeling a bit short-changed by its power supply (after putting effort into reducing my system’s noise floor).  It seems not bad, but from reports can obviously be improved.

Obviously a lot of people here take a differing view on ‘market’ UPnP servers - that they meet the needs adequately, as long as they serve/ transcode to WAV and support metadata for nStream control point appropriately. 

So I’m left confused – does UServe UPnP really contribute anything musically to an NDS system?  And why should someone making this Naim investment see such benefits from an after-market PSU upgrade?  Is it 'final returns' on an already-excellent NDS/500 system, or more obvious?)

I’d be really interested in Dave Dever’s insights on this…. and anyone else's. 

My Untiserve is set to back up to my Netgear Ready NAS NV+ v2 which has UPuP enabled, so I have always been able to access the Serve back up files from my NDS. Their may be many reasons for this but the quality of the sound from the identical files on the NAS are not as good as the same files from the Serve! and I am not the only one who has reported this. I personally would not give up my Serve.

I haven't compared UPnP implementatons, but I have similar observations when using the UnitiServe (HDD) as an S/PDIF source into the Naim DAC. The backup WAV files played from my NAS, through the Serve, do not sound as good as the same files played directly from it. (My NAS has no UPnP program).

That said, a recent 3-week test of a VortexBox based device gave me the opportunity to perform several head to head comparisons with the UnitiServe, again directly feeding the Naim DAC. After numerous trials, the differences I was identifying boiled down to the difference between the FLAC and WAV formats (the VB rips to FLAC). To be sure (and eliminate as many variables as possible) I did multiple comparisons of FLAC vs WAV on the UnitiServe.

Thanks Richard and Jan-Erik for your experience.

What I'd like Naim to develop is a 'systems solution' to the digital source.  Think of a 'digital hicap' - maybe a "UnitiHub"?

• low- noise psu for the serve, focusing on extraneous noise into the systems mains and groun-plane
• low-noise integrated ethernet switch, 4 ports for serve, nds, nas and general internet
• companion recommended ethernet cabling system, eg optimised shielding doesn't have to be esoteric

 A simple 'out of box' solution addressing these three problem areas optimally would have real value in my eyes.  We're all experimenting with DIY point solutions to individual problem areas.