An Amazingly Brave View of the Meistersinger Overture.

that's way tooo slow, almost grotesquely. Klemperer completely failed to grasp Wagner's visionary tapping into 20th century Broadway musical his Die Meistersingers present us with.

Rubbish!

sharik,

I personally like this particular Klemperer's Overture but who's your favourite for the score?

obviously Mravinsky does it best, his conducting of Wagner score is above any other conductor's, but on the other hand, his take on the piece is slow in tempo too, it is only that Mravinsky was a much better conductor than Klemperer, which makes the whole difference.

Sharik,

Mravinsky was a fine conductor and I was just listening to his Tchaikovsky's Pathetique again. His is my all time favourite for the 6th.

The only Wagner of his I have is this JVC Live LP from the '78. He sure had his own take on Wagner.

I need to explore his Wagner catalogue more as this set hasn't convinced me that he was the right man for these Wagner pieces. They just come off kind off stiff to me.

Klemperer also was a fine conductor and he does more right than wrong in my book.

Some say Furtwangler version is the definitive Die Meistersinger.

Well, I have just listened to both versions, & it just proves again that with music as great this, there is more than one way of playing it. I think both are very good, though I think would prefer Klemperer version long term.

For a slow version it is hard to beat Reginald Goodall’s with the ENO, which I saw way back in the 70’s!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI95i6Penqk

There again the recent superb version by Marek Janowski on PentaTone comes in at 8mins 33sec. and is in splendid SACD sound.

In any case the best place to hear Meistersinger is in the theatre, I understand that the WNO are going to revive their version with Bryn Terfel singing Hans Sachs, it is worth making the effort.

well, i left Furtwangler out of it because his a sure winner here.

as for that Mravinsky LP music being 'stiff' - for example Siegfried Funeral March is anythig but stiff.  Mravinsky is clearly ahead of Klemperer and many others in understanding Wagner... for that matter it is Klemperer's that come across as 'stiff'.

It is good to see some passionate responses, and particularly satisfying to read opinions, I would profoundly disagree with. That is always more interesting than too much comfortable agreement!

An interesting sidelight on Klemperer and Mravinski is that Klemperer was for a short while actually a fellow conductor of the Leningrad Phil as a second conductor under the reign of Mravinski!

I am not sure that there is any real evidence about how the two got on though!

Listening to the Mravinski performance [of Meistersinger Prelude] I am struck by the almost complete absence of articulation in the violin playing. I am doubtful to criticise the performance for this omission as it may well be down to the overly reverberant recording that also covers almost all the detail in the wind writing, and allows the brass at fortissimo to cover over the string section.

Given a decent recording it is quite possible that we could discern greatness in the Mravinski performance, but this recording completely undermines the possibility of making a valid judgement.

ATB from George

Morton,

I've a few complete Meistersinger opera on CD but havent had a chance to listen to the whole thing.

I would love to listen to it live but haven't had an opportunity.

I am not sure if I have a patience to sit through the whole thing tho. :/

Sharik,

Sorry my *stiff* comment is more to do with his Tristan und Isolde.

Yes. Mravinsky's Funeral March is very good. ( JVC VIC 9519: I am specifically refering to the '78 Live reocrding. Not sure if above YouTube recording is the same set )
It is full of menace with short bursts of temper and anguish. Reminds me of cold dark gray winter sky leading on to a ray pf hope for thunderous finish. Brass seems a bit out of place and chimes seem gimicky, tho.
The way Klemperer renders the tune is like a slithering snake turning every stone. So oddly, the tempo itself isnt't that slow but it *feels* slow to some. Particularly the intro is wonderfully sinister with clearer more precise note delivery than either Toscanini or Mravinsky.

My favourite Siegfried Funeral March is by Toscanini/NBC recorded in 1952.

He also has a unique view on Wagner and very different from either Mravisnky or Klemperer. I can feel the strong human emotions behind the notes. You'd hate it tho cuz it's even slower!

I guess I don't get hang up on a tempo so much so long as a performance gives me the strong emotional take away at the end. The timing is irrelevant for me.

maybe it depends on a sound system the piece was played on, but what i understand as 'articulation' is perfectly there and doing its work just fine, so emotional and vigorous it sounds under Mravinsky's baton, like no any other conductor's.

agreed.

Klemperer was guest conductor at the Leningrad Philharmonic in early 1929, and also in Moscow immediately afterwards. It seems that Klemperer did not either receive good reviews from the music critics in Leningrad, or particularly get on well with the orchestra. The reverse was the case in Moscow however.

ATB from George

- an interesting fact... thanks for pointing out.

Dear Sharik,

I don't guess on the subject of music! 

ATB from George

Originally Posted by Kuma:

I've a few complete Meistersinger opera on CD but havent had a chance to listen to the whole thing.

I would love to listen to it live but haven't had an opportunity.

I am not sure if I have a patience to sit through the whole thing tho. :/

Kuma,

Do you mean you have that you have never listen to the whole of Meistersinger, even on cd?

If so, I think you are really missing out; Wagner, is my favourite composer & I think Meistersinger is wonderful from start to finish.

I am not too fond of all these bleeding chunks of Wagner though, Siegfried’s Funeral March & Isolde’s Liebestod etc. mean so much more when they are heard in context.

Wagner’s music has a cumulative effect when heard in a good performance, & Meistersinger is loud enough to keep most people awake!

indeed, Wagner is better watched then just listened to; and i have to admit that seldom heard his operas on CD, only watched them on DVD's and blu-rays.

The music is obviously the most important part of just about any opera, not just Wagner, but it is also very much meant to be experienced live.

In the UK it is easy to do, last year my wife & I saw WNO Lohengrin, Lulu & Tosca, the complete Ring at Longborough, & Parsifal at Covent Garden. We had our holiday in Lucerne partly so we could go to Gotterdammerung at the Lucerne Summer Festival.

This year we saw Peter Grimes at ENO London in February & have tickets for Gotterdammerung & Rosenkavalier at Symphony Hall Birmingham, WNO Moses und Aron in Birmingham & Parsifal at Norwich in July. Believe it or not Norwich is having a Wagner festival, Theater Freiburg are coming from Germany & performing Tannhauser as well as Parsifal, tickets are still available.

I will also be trying to get tickets for Tristan at Covent Garden which is on in December.

Ticket prices are not as expensive as people think.

Morton,

The only Wagner Opera that I listened to the entire thing is a Tristan und Isolde.

I've got a Böhm/Staatskapelle Dresden complete Nürmberg set unopened just sitting on a desk.

In order to appreciate the whole production I think that it needs repeated listening and set of time. I will get to it at some point!

I just looked at next year season at the Met and Lyric Opera and they are performing the Die Meistersinger and Tannhäuser respectively next season. Tempting to go if I could get a good seat but what I really want to go see is the Tristan und Isolde.

The problem with Wagner opera is that they are normally much longer than others. ( 5.5-6 hrs!)

their not that long, actually, 4.5hrs - the lengthiest ones, namely Gottersdammerung and The Meistersingers and Parsifal.

sharik,

Hopefully there are a few intermissions as my bladder does not hold up 4.5 hrs.!

in most cases - two breaks per each Wagner opera, and it is only Das Rheingold (a single act opera) might cause that sort of inconvenience...

kuma,

I agree that to get the most out of a Wagner production you do need to do a bit of preparation, but I think Meistersinger is more pleasure than hard work. If in doubt, when you do eventually open the cd go to the Act 3 Quintet. The music is so different to Tristan, it is hard to believe it is by the same composer.

This is from a previous Met production, the quintet starts at about 3:50, but it is all good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuKy1DIktYw

As sharik says, the length of Wagner’s operas can sometimes be exaggerated.

Morton,

Thank you for the video. It was lovely. The female lead is a cutie!

Perhaps I should give the act III a try this weekend.

That Quintet tune I can still hear a touch of Wagnerian climbing chromatic scale but you are right in that its disposition hopeful rather than a doom.

i've got that DVD, good production.