How to discover and learn about classical music

I agree that there is no such thing as a "best" interpretation. The point I was trying (unsuccessfully) to make, was that one should not choose a recording based purely on sound quality. There are many interpretations that were recorded in the middle of the last century, and these should not be overlooked because of a fear of poor quality sound. I thought it was a valid point because this is somewhat of an "audiophile" forum.

BBM

BBM, I think we agree.  Don't sweat it anyway as I probably should not put out stuff like this anyway and spout off especially when I'm in a hurry.  My whole thing is simply that I think we all tend to like what matches our own personality and if we can relate to that performer.  Maybe just mentioning Richter or Klemperer etc. makes us feel special, different, or even superior about the music or who we are or who we want to be, for example?  My hunch though is if we can get over this and we don't have to agree with every interpretation but if we look at everyone individually as who they are one can find something special in all interpretations.  The related point is only that beauty and quality of sound are inextricably related to fundamentals of music.  You can't really remove these things from any other important element like rhythm, harmony, melody and so on.  My humble opinion only.  I also applaud anyone who is sincere about what they do.  Many devote there entire lives to study and music and I think this is noteworthy.

And yes, many of my favorite recordings are from the 50's / 60's which like you would agree this is a very special period for recording as this is when they started to get many things right.  The artists of the generations prior to this of course were equally as special but unfortunately it isn't consistently possible to always have success due to the recording quality.  Of course, some recordings did work surprisingly well.  Unfortunately, I think I am the most critical about recordings with piano.  Often voice or strings tend to work better but with piano even today it is sometimes hard to get it right in recording it.

I think it is important for starters to be pointed to sympathetic rather than iconoclastic, or even worse dull, performances at the start. Or else the performance can get in the way of initially getting to know and love the music.

I have never seen the significance of debating the relative merits of two contrasted and great performance [on records] of a great piece of music for all that. Someone might prefer Furtwangler, someone [likely me] might prefer Klemperer, and others will prefer Bruno Walter, or Erich or Carlos Kleiber, and so the debate goes on without possible conclusion!

But there are genuinely boring and overly routine performances, where recordings are made, often as part of a large series, where the session is allocated to recording this piece or that [well within the technical command of all present] but which piece of music has never been played by them before or will be again. 

Such performances are sometime not the most engaging or affectionate, and may give the impression  that the music itself is rather dull.

Brahms can suffer at the hands of a dull performance, and so can Haydn. ...

If anyone asks me for a first recording, I do believe than I can usually make a nice introductory suggestion of an inviting performance for the beginner, though I would very much hope that the person asking advice will look at other performances in the fullness of time.

Sometimes I find that I prefer to start someone with a performance that is central rather than my particular favourite. As often as not in reality!

ATB from George

i'd suggest Bizet's Carmen for starters.

I would not suggest any opera to any person as a starting point in "classical" music!

ATB from George

I suggest you jump straight into Cage.

The field opens so much after Cage, you will be amazed (for life).

Here are some things I suggest...

Scarlatti  Piano Sonatas

Bach  Brandenburg Concertos 1-6

          Goldberg Variations

          Cello Suites  1-6

Haydn  London Symphonies

            String Quartets Op. 20 and 76

            Piano Sonatas

Mozart  Symphonies  35 & 41 

             Piano Concertos  #9 & 17-24 & 27

             Horn Concertos

             Clarinet Concerto

             Gran Partita Serenade

             Clarinet Quintet

Beethoven  Symphonies

                   Violin Concerto

                   Early and Middle String Quartets

                   Piano Sonatas

Schubert  Symphonies 5,8, and 9

                String Quintet

                String Quartet 13 & 14

                Piano Sonata d960

Mendelssohn  Symphonies  3 & 4

                       Violin Concerto

Chopin  Preludes

             Nocturnes

             Ballades

             Etudes

             Mazurkas

             Waltzes

Schumann  Piano Concerto

                   Piano Quintet

                   Kreisleriana

                   Kinderszenen

Brahms  Symphonies

              Violin concerto

              Piano Concerto #2

              Hungarian Dances

              Piano Quintet

              Clarinet Quintet

              Solo Piano Music OP #116-119

Bruch  Violin Concerto #1

           Scottish Fantasy

Tchaikovsky  Symphonies  # 4-6

                      Violin Concerto

                      Piano Concerto  #1

Dvorak  Symphonies  #7,8 & 9

             Cello Concerto

             Slavonic Dances

             Piano Quintet

             String Quartet  #12

Grieg  Piano Concerto

           Lyric Pieces for Solo Piano

Rimsky Korsakov  Scheherezade

Mahler  Symphonies  #! & 4

Debussy  La Mer

                Prelude A L'Apres-Midi D'un Faune

                Solo piano Music

Sibelius  Symphony  #2

              Violin Concerto

              Tone Poems for Orchestra

Vaughan Williams  The Lark Ascending

                              Fantasia on Greensleeves

Rachmaninoff  Piano Concertos  #2 & 3

Ravel  String Quartet

           Solo Piano music

Stravinsky  The Firebird

                  Petroushka

Prokofiev  Symphonies #1 & 5

Rodrigo  Concerto de Aranjuez

That should be a pretty good start. Good luck!

BBM

Dear YanC.

The question is about starting in classical music.

I doubt that Cage is going to attract many new-comers to the cause. For the sake of classical music we had better try to encourage people, not scare them off. And for the sake of people is is important that those who love classical music share this love without being clever or cold shouldering those on the cusp.

ATB from George

Perhaps a little obscure for some, but try John Holloway's recording of Biber's Mystery Sonatas on Virgin Veritas. It's a wonderful recording of this great music. 

Oops! In my above list it should read Mahler Symphonies #1 & 4, and I completely forgot about Beethoven Piano Concerto #3,4 & 5 which should also be there. That'll teach me to do better proof reading...

BBM

How about Gorecki's 3rd Symphony 'Symphony of Sorrowful Songs' sung by Dawn Upshaw with the London Sinfonietta.

yes I was aware. thanks

 >> I doubt that Cage is going to attract many new-comers to the cause.

Why's that?

Have you listened to: "In a Landscape", "Dream", "Prelude for Meditation", "the Seven Quartets" or "Ryoanji"? These are conventional enough for anyone to get started.

>> For the sake of classical music we had better try to encourage people, not scare them off. 

Well precisely for the sake of it, Classical music does not end in the 19th century. I sure consider some classics "essential listening", but if someone wants to get in right now, in the 21st century, well why not opening up the field.

>> And for the sake of people is is important that those who love classical music share this love without being clever or cold shouldering those on the cusp.

Not sure who's cold shouldering who here, but music is what I love. Music in general.

- peace

I think some very good advice has been given, especially the submission by Florestan.

I would also add that there are many pieces that some classical fans consider 'Hacknied', ignore this and listen to the 1812, Bolero or Carmen etc.  They are popular because they are good.

It used to be sound advice to advise people to ignore very cheap CDs, however, I am not sure that applies any more.  Just look on Amazon and purchase collections of famous conductors and take a 'leap of faith' on content, funnily enough most conductors had good taste.  But do ignore things like '500 best classical moments', 'Marks & Spencer Dynamite Classics' etc.

As to composers like John Cage?  I would be careful, but if you buy the odd CD and you don't like it then fair enough.  But there are some modern composers whose music sounds like someone strangling a herd of cats.  btw with Cage forget about Silence, it's a joke (his view).  That will probably get howls of derision but I will add that I love Cage and other minimalists, like Glass, Adams etc.  But they were not the first things I tuned into.

That was Opera and if you live near London get down to the ENO, Covent Garden or Saddlers Wells and get to see some of the more popular stuff first.  If you go and see a Puccini opera like La Boheme, Butterfly or Tosca and don't like them then Opera ain't gonna work for you.  If you do like them buy the odd copy of the full opera.  I have three versions of Tosca, for example, my favourite being the Callas version.

The wonderful thing about classical music is that the journey you are just starting never ends, you will always be finding new composers or performances or even a whole genre.

Bon Voyage.

not quite so, for instance, i hated Tosca, just couldn't stand it, while my favorite was Turandot.

Hmmm!  Must admit I find that difficult to understand, I think Tosca was his strongest opera, definitely the most dramatic.  If you are ever in Rome you can go to see the place where the action takes place.  But everyone to their own taste I suppose.

Tosca's last words, after killing Scarpia: "Scarpia I will see you in Hell" and the she lobs herself off the tower.  Those were the days.

now that i had realised the brilliance of it my favorite Puccini opera list goes like this -

Turandot
Butterfly
Tosca
La Boheme

The good thing about starting with classical music is that you really can't go wrong as long as you stay away from crossover like Adya Classic (is this classical music at all?), Rondo veneziano and the like.

Forgot to mention that dark side of Classical- very good point, there really is some dross about in that area.

Start with Elliott Carter and work your way back in time until the music gets too boring for your tastes.

@Kevin,

Excellent advice, as the alternative would be to start with the Medieval and plow through the Renaissance and Baroque, until it becomes interesting .

EEK ! What terrible thing has Fred done in the past to deserve that ?

I was thinking about suggesting starting with Hildegard von Bingen and working your way forwards to modern stuff until you stop liking it!!

I think that there is a real nugget in the middle from the Baroque to the early Romantics, or should we think of dates, then from the late 1600s to the end of the 19th. Century.

Not because there is no easy music to start with either earlier or later, but because it seems that by now we are not saddled with the second rate from this period. Most of what is there in the current repertoire is simply superb!

The process of weeding out the less grand is by no means complete for the 20th Century!

You could of course start with Gregorian Chant, but that is going a bit far back I would think, and probably no better a starting point than the Second Viennese School!

ATB from George

Jean Rameau Les Indes Galantes is definately a must watch -

I have a wonderful recording of this.

I personally cannot stand music theatre and ballet, but this music is brilliant!

I strongly recommend anyone investigate this music, with or without visuals!

ATB from George