How to discover and learn about classical music

I hope you don't include the like of Philip Glass or Steve Reich in that!

I saw Peter Grimes recently at the ENO and it was absolutely awesome, the Sea Interludes you mention are from Grimes.

i too wouldn't recommend Britten or Vaughan, a rather second rate composers.

+1. It's good, and it's free.

They have a good show on Saturday called "Building a Library" and there are over 150 free podcasts you can download.

On another note, you could try Ravel (a neat, compact, elegant man with a neat, compact and elegant oeuvre), to whom there is a great deal more than "Bolero"; or the groundbreaking Claude Debussy.

I am probably alone but I generally prefer French music - which also includes Lully, Rameau, Berlioz, Bizet, Varese and Satie, among many others - to the Austro-Germanic school.

Whatever you do, don't go near Wagner. His music, if it can be called that, is absolutely bloody awful. Silly, overblown, pretentious and despite what his fans might try to tell you, quite, quite empty. Worst of all, it goes on. For ages and ages and ages.

As that wise man Mark Twain once said: "Wagner's music is better than it sounds."

that's simply not true. Wagner music is beautiful, maybe the most beautiful music ever produced by a composer.

quite the contrary, his music is loaded with a message, full of meaning, ranging from philosophy to prophecy, a music of the future.

I can see why the empty, shrill bombast of Wagner might appeal to you Sharik.

Anyway, any fule no that Bach made the most beautiful music.

And Tchaikovsky made his view quite clear ...............

"After the last notes of Gotterdammerung, I felt as though I had been let out of prison.”

"One simply can not judge Wagner's 'Lohengrin' after a first hearing. Pity I don't intend hearing it a second time." Rossini said that.

"One simply can not judge Wagner's 'Lohengrin' after a first hearing. Pity I don't intend hearing it a second time." Rossini said that.

And also said ..... "Wagner has wonderful moments, and dreadful quarters of an hour."

Is it not strange how you agree with some posters about composer A and violently disagree about composer B.

I love the music of Wagner but to describe Britten as 'second rate' is a complete travesty and complete nonsense.  As I said earlier Peter Grimes at the ENO was one of the very best operas I have ever seen.  Yes you are entitled to your opinion but are you qualified to judge Britten in this way?  Vaughn-Williams may not be top notch but still much of his music is excellent.

I do not feel qualified to judge any of the major composers as second rate.  Sorry Sharik I agree with you on Wagner - his operas are BRILLIANT but show some respect please!

As to all of you who denigrate Wagner!!!! How very dare you?

Kev I am with you 100% on the modern French composers.  Debussy is my favourite of the bunch but many of the others are also brilliant.  Berlioz, who is I suppose the grandfather of them all, is a good place to start with French music.  On the B&W Society of Sound this month's classical piece is Berlioz's Te Deum - LSO with Colin Davis and an absolute corking 24/96 recording.  Large scale choral works like this are often difficult to reproduce at home but this recording is brilliant.  Yup Ravel, Poulenc, etc are great.  I also really enjoy listening to Satie, I just enjoy his madness.

btw the non-classical piece on the Society of Sound this month is Edwyn Collins and I am afraid his voice appears to have gone or was his singing always a bit off?  Don't know.  Anyone a fan of the guy?

i can not see how you can see it.

he wouldn't have written Swan Lake if there wasn't Lohengrin in the first place. Tchaiky owes a lot to Wagner, if not everything.

well, i do admire Handel operas, for example.

He would, but without stealing the Lohengrin theme.........

Ahh, these composers. All the same - blatent thieves .  Even Led Zeppelin were 'at it'............. allegedly .

I have to spring to the defence of Wagner here, no music moves me more, or costs me more!

I spend a small fortune going to every performance I can.

By the wonders of Spotify, I have just listened to the opening of Taurus by Randy California and I have to say it does sound very similar to Stairway.

psst don't mention Rolf Harris.

I think no composer divides taste like Wagner!

Some of the greatest Wagner conductors had serious reservations even!

But that did not prevent a great performance of the music. It is quite possible to see the greatness in the music, and still not like it, while others find it the musical summit.

For myself, I find more in a four minute fugue by JS Bach than any whole opera Act by Wagner! Too many rather dry quarters of hours [thanks Rossini] between the clinch points. And then the clinches are very loud and I simply do not like any loud music much. I can forgive some loudness provided it links great lyricism and profundity in between!

ATB from George

As for Britten being second rate, words fail me. I too was at Peter Grimes at the ENO earlier this year, the second time I have seen this production, believe me there is nothing second rate about this music.

Also try his wonderful violin concerto, the passacaglia final movement is wonderful.

I think the reason why Wagner divides opinion George is because a) he was a "difficult" person with some very toxic views; and more pertinently b) his music is big, long, ambitious and very very serious. As you say, there is too much of it, it is too loud and it is unending.It is ambitious to be sure, but the composer does not have the ability to translate his ambition into art, so the result is just gigantism, pompous, empty and ultimately ridiculous.

It seems to insist that it is not there to be enjoyed, but endured; that it is not there to provoke thought, but simply to be obeyed; that you take it as seriously as it (and its creator) takes itself.

Wagner's horrible music always puts me in mind of a kind of voracious, bullying black hole, one sucking all the joy, beauty and sensuality out of the world.

Der Kevin,

I always use understatement with regard to my lack of enjoyment of Wagner's music. I am fond of one of his pieces, fortunately scored for chamber group: The Siegfried Idyll. 

I have a small number of recordings of Wagner including two of the Idyll! 

Sometimes I listen to any of these recordings, but never for longer than the Idyll these days!

The Idyll is long enough for me. On the other hand Bach's B Minor Mass seems much shorter!

ATB from George

It's strange how any discussion on classical music stalls and becomes irrational when it gets round to Wagner! How divisive is the man's music. I've been trying to "get" the Ring cycle for the past year but I'm at the point of admitting defeat.

I'm a beginner with classical music, too, but making some progress. I don't think you necessarily need to have a rigidly, systematic approach. I would advise starting with something you like and investigating that composer, artist or form further. There are plenty of free resources - BBC Radio 3, as mentioned above, is perhaps the best and has plenty of podcasts.

Good luck and happy listening.

Vlad

Dear Vlad,

Many years ago I tried very hard to understand and love Wagner's music. I have owned three recordings of the Ring Cycle. One Tristan and one Meistersinger. None of these are still with me.

I don't miss any of them. I only have Act One of Walkure now. That is enough if I am in the mood. Well I think I am in the mood, but that soon passes when I put the music on! 

I do have other failures with classical music, where I do not just get it. Almost always opera, which apart from Mozart and Beethoven's Fidelio, I think I must concede that after a good deal of effort I might just as well give up on after my half century ...

I cannot deal with any Scriabin, for example, and there are a small number of others. 

My favourites are Bach, Haydn, Handel, and Schubert, but these are just my real favourites. I love Mozart, Beethoven, Schumann, Sibelius, Walton, Purcell, and many others ...

ATB from George

Tchaikovsky was said to be influenced by Wagner's music after his visit to Bayreuth and set out to write the Francesca da Rimini which is one of the worst tune he wrote. :/

He comes off like a Wagner-wanna be but fails to pull it off convincingly.