Bit perfect ripping - which software to use?

Posted by: totemphile on 03 March 2011

Hi

I would like to start building a digital music library. To this end I have just bought a Macbook Pro and am now faced with the decision what software to use to rip my CDs. I would like to use iTunes as my primary music library but am unsure whether to also use it to copy my CDs. Ideally I would like a ripping software that ensures the copy is in fact bit perfect. Thinking long term the software should also be able to handle high definition files.

So far I have come across at least three options other than iTunes, those being Amarra, Pure Music and Max. Not sure whether iTunes can handle hidef files at the moment but if the rumours are anything to go by it certainly will do so in future. Which out of the lot do people here prefer and for what reasons? Can one claim to be the clear market leader and best software or is the jury still out or is it simply down to personal preferences?

In parallel I am using a Sonos ZP90 as my streamer/server, currently controlled via my iPhone but will swap for an iPad2 once out later this month. I know Sonos is limited to 16/48 but that's ok for now. I still would want the software to be able to handle higher resolution files though so that these can also be played back directly into my SuperNait's internal DAC from the Macbook. nDAC is an option going forward but not an immediate plan right now.

It would be great to hear people's first hand experiences. My apologies up front, I am sure this question has been answered here before, but without a proper search function I am a bit stranded at the moment...

Thank you
tp

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by RudiNee

Hi Totemphile,

When using a mac you can best use the XLD ripper. The cd paranoia engine is very good and it is (as far as i know) the only mac ripper with accuraterip. It takes longer than iTunes but the quality is much better,

I myself use flac as an output, but itunes won't accept that. For the best settings you can google the web. I now changed my sonos for a linn majik ds ,,, the sonos and the ndac were good but the majik really is a giant step up.

If you use the mac directlyas a aource you can use the Ayrewav player (avaiable from sbooth), This one sounds brilliant and can handle hires sources ... and it's free to use!

Good luck!

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by Bluebeard

Pure Music, Amarra and Max are not ripping programs but rather music replay software. Pure Music uses iTunes as a music management system but bypasses Core Audio (Mac's replay system). Amarra uses playlists in an iTunes environment. All of these programs can handle hi-res replay, and Pure Music (which I use) has the capacity to play FLAC files.

From your original post it appears that you are only ripping cds. If this is the case than ripping your cds on a Mac is simple - use iTunes it is bit perfect. Despite claims to the contrary there should be no difference between a FLAC file and a ALAC file.

I'd just stick with the basics to start off with - iTunes, optical out from the Macbook to the Supernait. After you are comfortable with that go ahead with the various tweaks (computer audio is up there with vinyl for this)The programs you mention are all available on trial basis and you can see which one floats your boat if at all. Then you can get into the various spdif convertors etc.

regards,

Giles

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by gav111n

Hi Tp,

Ditto to what RudiNee and Gile’s said plus:

Audiophiles tend to be control freaks and worry about whether the rip was perfect or not, so XLD is good if you’re that type of personality. For me, I ripped my CD’s with itunes to lossless AIFF format which is dead quick and easy. You’re up and running in the world of computeraudio in no time. Over time I am slowly going back through the CDs and re-ripping my most important music using Exact Audio Copy (ripper only) on a pc, but this isn’t a big job as I don’t have that many CDs. I can’t say that I have noticed any difference in sound quality between the itunes and EAC rips.

itunes is a great player. I used it happily for many months. It handles high resolution files but you have to manually change the output format with the OSX midi application. The alternative players that you mentioned just do the switching automatically. Only after putting ‘serious’ money and effort into my naim system did the SQ differences between software players become apparent. RudiNee’s suggestion of Ayrewave is a good one, but this product has now changed name to Decibel and costs $33. Decibel was my favourite player for SQ but now it has been overtaken with some considerable margin by Audirvana. This is an open source product that is being developed by an enthusiast. It’s free but if you end up using it I would consider sending a donation to the developer, Damien – it’s only fair really.

There are loads of optimisations to squeeze the best SQ from the MBP and the connection to the DAC but I would say just start off with itunes and take it from there. Oh, by the way, internet radio and the listen again services sounds great, much better than I ever expected.

That’s my experience for what it’s worth. I hope it helps.

Gav

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by Tog

XLD on a Mac is great for ripping to flac - I use it for my UPnP library

Max can rip perfectly well and is a very good all purpose audio codec convertor eg flac to aiff - it is well maintained by sbooth and bugs are dealt with quickly. Sometimes it has problems with metadata or cue sheets - then I use XLD.

Amarra - "Emperor's New Clothes" springs to mind but some people swear by it - so what do I know - but then you can buy a lot of CDs with the kind of money they are asking for it.

Ayrewave works and has a good pedigree but "I can't tell the difference between it and itunes!" - must be stupid or something. However, it can automatically adjust the sample rate which itunes can't - which is nice. Still beta so won't be free for ever.

ITunes - gets a lot of criticism but without it we wouldn't be talking about streamed music at all. It rips IMHO perfectly well and unless you are seriously obsessive I wouldn't lose sleep over the accuracy of its ripping. After all most redbook CD recordings leave a lot to be desired anyway.

ITunes, XLD and Max - all free - pretty fantastic value if you ask me

Tog

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by james n

I've been round this loop. From Lavry DA10 through Weiss DAC2 and DAC 202, Amarra and Puremusic to Linn DS. All good fun and great results from the various mac n dac combos.

From experience -

Ripping - ITunes is a good ripper but i find XLD better on older discs so that is my default ripper. It can be set to auto to just take a disc, rip, add to iTunes library and eject. XLD will also convert FLAC to AIFF etc for hi res downloads.

Computer - dedicate it to the task (a mac mini is ideal for this). If your music store is external then consider converting the internal drive to SSD. iTunes is a great way to manage your music and with the iTunes remote app controlling your music from your armchair is very easy.

Software - Plenty of options out there now to integrate in with iTunes and they all sound slightly different. Anyone that tells you they don't is either deaf or just hasn't tried it themselves.

Interface - the MAC optical S/PDIF output isn't one of the best. Look at the Weiss INT202 Firewire to S/PDIF or the various USB to S/PDIF converters.

Oh and make sure your music collection is backed up !

Have fun

James

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by Tog

Ehh ?

Tog

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by james n

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by totemphile

Thanks everyone for your recommendations so far, very helpful indeed. As for many here this is all pretty new stuff to me, albeit intersting and exciting as well, especially with the potential that is yet to come from hidef. My intention was to start off with iTunes, simply because it's easy to use, intuitive and well designed, a joy. Plus Apple's plans to make original 24 bit recordings available at some stage through iTunes suggests that they are going to put a real effort into making iTunes the premier place to be for high quality music downloads. Maybe moving to a cloud based supscription model in future? In any case it seems like a good place to start and possibly stay. Will experiment as I go along. Quite happy to stay with MBP, iTunes and Sonos for now and experiment with them, optical out versus Hiface, etc.. all to come but one step at a time.

Not so keen on Linn tbh, have heard some silly things about the company here in Germany, awful customer service, to point where dealers have given up selling their kit, no matter how good. On what scale this is true, I don't know but I don't want to end up with a multi £K piece of hifi only to be told to buy a new one when it breaks down... I will stick with Naim, at least you can be sure of excellent customer service even for old hifi gear, looks better too and the sound is good enough for me

Let's see what they come up with over the next year or so? An NDXS would be good, the ideal partner for the nDAC, I'd spend my money there. NDX/PS/nDAC/PS, NO THANKS! I can't believe anyone would seriously want to consider it, just seems silly, unless you are the box count type. To me less is more...

Cheers
tp

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by totemphile

Lest I forget, so what's the main difference between FLAC and AIFF? Does it make a difference? As I have found out WAV can be a bit of a headache because it does not seem to copy the relevant meta data of an album let's say. Can I save in FLAC and then batch convert whole files into WAV and keep all meta data that way? I am aksing because there seem to be many here suggesting that WAV is the best sounding source format. Is that the case? And if so, can it be heard at nDAC/SuperNait level (something I may move towards longer term) or are the differences so minute that you would need to go much higher up, e.g. 552 level?

Thanks
tp

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by likesmusic

One concern with using iTunes to rip is that the artwork is hidden away., and can be hard for other applications to get. So I would make sure that you have the ability to convert iTunes rips to another format and preserve tags and artwork, otherwise you may have a lot of work if you decide to move away from iTunes in the future.

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by Tog

Originally Posted by likesmusic:

There are a number of applescript macros available that will embed artwork in itunes for you which may be useful

Tog

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by likesmusic

Tog - you've misunderstood (or I've misexplained) ... I mean that if you use iTunes to rip and let iTunes find artwork but later decide to use (say) dbpoweramp to convert that rip to FLAC, you won't get the artwork because iTunes doesn't store artwork in the tags, it stores it somewhere inside iTUnes. OTOH if you use dBpoweramp to rip to ALAC, then move that into iTunes the artwork will be accessible should you subsequently wish to convert to another format and bring it outside iTunes.

So, even if you do like iTunes and want ALAC rips, there's an argument for using dBpoweramp to rip and tag in the first place, because dBpoweramp puts the artwork in the tags, whereas iTunes puts it somewhere you easily can't get from outside.

And dBpoweramp will give you a Folder.jpg with the artwork in too, should you wish at some point to use a UPnP server that makes use of it.

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by Tog

No I meant that there are applescript routines to embed artwork in the tags - yu could always use Max to do the conversion.

Tog

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by Frank Abela

FLAC is a way of packing a file more efficiently than the usual AIFF (or WAV) file. So you save on disc space (typically 2/3rds the size of the equivalent WAV/AIFF). In the process of replay, the FLAC file is decompressed. In theory, the resulting stream is exactly the same as if you were reading an AIFF or WAV file directly off the disc.

In practice, I find FLAC files are slightly less engaging than WAV/AIFF. I don't know why, I just know what I feel. Perhaps the extra work being done to decompress the file is impacting the stream. No idea.

As for ripping engine, I'm surprised that iTunes has had such good press in this thread. I've tried several and there are many articles in the press which pillory iTunes as pretty much the worst ripper around. The most highly praised rippers are dbPoweramp and EAC. I've not played with either, but the stories are that EAC is a pig to configure. dbPoweramp's extra string to its bow is that it supports metadata tags storage with WAV, which most rippers don't.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by George Fredrik

EAC is very difficult to configure. I gave up.

iTunes makes very fine sounding copies in ALAC. I have used this and find it very satisfactory, and not showing any loss compared to CD in quality that I can find. I happily have no artwork stored ...

ATB from George

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by zorba

I intend to finally start ripping in AIFF using itunes.

I know there is plenty of info here as regards to import settings but the search function is not up yet and I've been all over the net the last few days and cannot find the best settings when ripping cd in AIFF.

I would very much appreciate if anyone can post the optimal settings when ripping cd in AIFF using itunes.

cheers

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by likesmusic

Zorba, as far as I can see there isn't much to set - just select Automatic and 'use error correction'.

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by Tog

Simple - Import settings > Aiff encoder > Automatic (setting) - Error Correction set to On
No black magic

Tog

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by zorba

Thanks very much.

I wanted to confirm using error correction and was a little unsure as regards to the auto setting as I remember seeing somewhere that some would specify the bit and sample rate to match the cd.

So auto does the trick - simples - job done

thanks all

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by Rich27

Also as per earlier posts, if you are worried about the artwork, do not allow iTunes to automatically add it. Add it manually yourself and then the artwork is embedded within the music file.

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by MontyMusic

I've played around with various software like EAC & XLD but I've returned to iTunes !
iTunes is easy to use and rips fine. I can't tell the difference in the sound quality of different rips !

My chosen format is AIFF. I use XLD to convert any FLAC downloads to AIFF to play and store in iTunes and set up iTunes as suggested in a previous post. I stream from a NAS to my MacMini

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by Guido Fawkes

Use iTunes for ripping, it's fine and XLD or Max for the odd occasions that iTunes fails to rip the disc - only had this happen twice with over 1000 discs. I have done bit comparisons between iTunes with error correction and other rippers and the media content is identical. If there is a difference then I can neither see nor hear it. So I'm convinced iTunes is very good and I've always enjoyed good support from Apple.

The Sonus is an excellent piece of kit IMHO and just works (well almost had a problem with the supplied Ethernet cable, but this was fixed in minutes). It also recognised all the artwork from iTunes. It can't do hi-res, but that is unimportant as I have very few hi-res recordings. I use Sonus/nDAC as a streaming solution. I also use a NaimUniti in my office and think this an amazing piece of kit. I prefer the MF VLink to the hiFace and INT202 having tried all three; the VLink is the cheapest which is unusual. I have no idea why one should sound better than the other. Apple is phasing out Firewire in any case so I'd avoid expensive kit that relies on it.

So if you are Apple only for computing like me, with a semi-retired Amiga as my only other computing device, then iTunes is the way to go. Yes some press-types give it bad reviews, but they have to fill their columns with something - perhaps it is not as good on a PC, I don't know as I haven't got a PC. All I know is what I hear and iTunes on Mac is my preferred way to play computer music into my NaimUniti.

The Macros that Tog is referring to, I think are "Doug's Scripts for iTunes" google the phrase and you'll find them, they are free, unobtrusive and all the ones I've used do what they say they will.

So I agree with the posts here and recommend using iTunes for ripping an organising you library and using your Sonus as a streamer. There are many ways to achieve good results, it is just that some are easier than others. My chosen format is also Amiga Interchange File Format (AIFF) - it may be the oldest, but it works as well as anything - ALAC is fine too, as would FLAC be if iTunes would play it.

Posted on: 03 March 2011 by Tog

"Guido" good to hear from you again -

X2

Tog

Posted on: 04 March 2011 by totemphile

Thanks again everyone for sharing your own experiences here, much appreciated. It has been an interesting read and I am sure your comments will prove helpful as I work my way through some of the options that exist. I guess at the end of the day you will have to have made your own comparisons and drawn your own conclusions but it surely is helpful to get some guidance along the way. I will start off with iTunes and AIFF, I think, and work myself around the different formats from there to compare. I am in no rush, so will take my time. My Macbook arrived today, might set up iTunes and rip a CD this evening, just to see how I get on...

Cheers
tp

Posted on: 04 March 2011 by Cal

There seems to be a disconnect, for me, in what I read on this thread. Seems that most folk agree that you can rip lossless with iTunes (maybe WAV or AIFF preferred over ALAC for some) and it sounds just fine. Certainly easy. So if you can rip in iTunes, put file on NAS and stream with NDX (or other), is there any reason for anyone to go for a unitiServe? Using a Serve is no easier than rip to NAS. Why would Naim develop their own ripping engine and devote considerable R&D to optimize rips? Is there no difference between what is advocated in this thread and what Naim offers in their engine? Is it a matter of how revealing the rest of the system is? My interest is in the context of 282/SC/250/Allae.

Does anyone have a different view? Thanks

Cal (who is possibly getting closer to replacing his CDP that he sold!)