I would like to start building a digital music library. To this end I have just bought a Macbook Pro and am now faced with the decision what software to use to rip my CDs. I would like to use iTunes as my primary music library but am unsure whether to also use it to copy my CDs. Ideally I would like a ripping software that ensures the copy is in fact bit perfect. Thinking long term the software should also be able to handle high definition files.
So far I have come across at least three options other than iTunes, those being Amarra, Pure Music and Max. Not sure whether iTunes can handle hidef files at the moment but if the rumours are anything to go by it certainly will do so in future. Which out of the lot do people here prefer and for what reasons? Can one claim to be the clear market leader and best software or is the jury still out or is it simply down to personal preferences?
In parallel I am using a Sonos ZP90 as my streamer/server, currently controlled via my iPhone but will swap for an iPad2 once out later this month. I know Sonos is limited to 16/48 but that's ok for now. I still would want the software to be able to handle higher resolution files though so that these can also be played back directly into my SuperNait's internal DAC from the Macbook. nDAC is an option going forward but not an immediate plan right now.
It would be great to hear people's first hand experiences. My apologies up front, I am sure this question has been answered here before, but without a proper search function I am a bit stranded at the moment...
Well, if you spoke to a Naim dealer you are likely to be told that there is a big difference between the two. I had a long conversation with a Naim dealer here in Germany and according to him there is a huge difference in SQ between CDs ripped by the nServe and CDs ripped on a MBP, using iTunes or other types of software. In his view rips from iTunes sounded pretty awful and he was adamant that you could hear the difference and quite clearly so. Is this really the case or is it what you would say if your business was selling Naim gear? I don't know. It will be an interesting journey to find out. My starting point is the MBP and I will want to judge everything with my own ears from here on. All I can say is that I ripped a classical album the other day on my old hp compaq nc6000 laptop using a standard MS Mediaplayer. I could not tell the difference between that WAV file being played back via a Sonos ZP 90 into the my SuperNait's internal DAC (using a Naim DC1 RCA/RCA cable interconnect) and the original CD being played on my CDX2.2/Hiline as the source. Tbh, I was pretty gobsmacked when I did this quick and dirty comparison. So what does this all mean then? I would think that it just may be possible to produce some very fine results using a Macbook Pro and iTunes or whatever other ripping software. Yes maybe the nServe is better and the HDX even better still but how much better and is that difference worth the additional outlay? Only you can judge that. At the end of the day it is also a question of how much money one has or is willing to spend. I am sure there are many ways to go about this and many satisfactory solution. Although to be fair, if money was no object, I would probably get an nServe or HDX instead, for convenience reasons alone and hopefully they would sound better too
Posted on: 04 March 2011 by pcstockton
You configure EAC once, just like any other player. Then: - Insert CD - F4 - to detect gaps - Shift-F6 to start rip
pretty easy. The set up is as easy as following simple directions. You dont need to actually understand anything.
it isn't as long as it appears. it takes less than 5 minutes. Especially if you dont monkey around with codec set-up. Just set-up FLAC and be done with it. No one needs EAC for ripping to MP3, although you could, or Vorbis, Monkey audio etc...
Posted on: 04 March 2011 by Guido Fawkes
Although I don't like to disagree with your German dealer, I can't hear the difference between files ripped using different ripping engines. I have no doubt the UnitiServe is better built than my Apple kit and has a better S/PDIF out, but I'm very happy with my Apple Music Server. I believe I've improved its S/PDIF output by using the MF VLink, Moreover, if you can't hear a difference between CDX2.2 and the computer front-end then be happy, the CDX2 is a super player so if you've matched it with your computer source that must be good too. Systems I use are NaimUniti and Naim nDAC/555PS/282-SC/200/Allaes. It is revealing enough for me to prefer my LP12 to any digital source, but that doesn't stop me enjoying playing music digitally - just as well as I can't get all the music I like on vinyl.
I know I'm strange but I really can't tell the difference between 1 0 1 0 0 and 1 0 1 0 0 - no matter what engine produced these results.
If you play two copies of the same CD can you hear a difference? If you play a CD on two different CDX2s can you hear the difference. I think this is more likely than hearing a difference between two identical files - told you I was strange.
FWIW my advice remains enjoy the great results you're getting - iTunes is a great piece of software.
BTW iTunes can sound awful if it is not set-up right, but it is easy to set up right following the advice of Tog and others on this thread. Just switch off the effects and make it correct errors.
All the best, Guy
Posted on: 04 March 2011 by Tog
You can mimic the functions of a UnitiServe with Vortexbox; installed for free on an old PC or a homebuilt server or indeed on one of their ready built Server/NAS appliances (6TB). Approximate cost from nothing to £600. You can perform most housekeeping through a browser and updates are regular and painless.
Alternatively, RipNAS (£900) or it's sibling AssetNAS - no ripping (£500) work in a very similar way to the UnitiServe. I sometimes stream using ITunes from my main IMac to a MBP / Uniti and it works very well.
I have to admit the Naim is a lovely bit of kit though ...
Tog
Posted on: 05 March 2011 by totemphile
Guy, this was exactly my point, I think you can get some pretty amazing results from MB/PC playback. The fact that I had difficulties differentiating between my CDX2.2/Hiline and a WAV rip from an old laptop via Sonos into the SN DAC had me scratching my hair, after all I paid some serious money for the CDX2.2, even if bought second hand. At the time when it had just come out prices where still in line with its RRP, not like now, where these have plummeted to ridiculously low levels.
Thanks tp
Posted on: 05 March 2011 by likesmusic
totemphile - the issue of alleged differences in sound quaiity between iTunes rips and Naim rips was raised a while ago on here. It was shown that a (correctly configured) iTunes rip of a Naim cd was bit identical to the same track downloaded from the Naim store.
It is easy to repeat this test yourself, using either foobar or dBpoweramp to bit compare two rips.
imo you should challenge any dealer claiming that a UnitiServe rip is better to produce a copy of that rip, or compute the CRC checksum, so that such claims can be put to the test.
Posted on: 05 March 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk
I'll vote also for dBpoweramp. Very flexible with metadata and supports the main none lossy PCMfile formats such as Lossless Wave, AIFF, FLAC, etc, and you can chose the format the 'works' best for your renderer. I have not found a way to adjust the WAV file structure parameters however which I have seen can cause variability on rendering of wave files encoded by different softwarer, so to be safe I keep with FLAC at a constant lossless compression level.
Simon
Posted on: 05 March 2011 by jon h
And dBpoweramp happily drives multi-drive robotic ripping engines like the Primera family (their preferred robotic engine).
Works great, am working through my CD collection here.
Posted on: 05 March 2011 by likesmusic
i'm a dBpoweramp fanboy too. If anyone, Naim dealer or otherwise, can produce a better rip on anything then I'd be interested to hear it.
Posted on: 05 March 2011 by Tog
The UnitiServe is a great solution for many - one of many great solutions. The Naim dealer is trying to sell Naim kit - but saying the rips are better than anyone else is sheer guesswork.
I still think it is too expensive - unless the money is not an issue and you can buy it without thinking.
Tog
Posted on: 05 March 2011 by gav111n
Hi tp,
Have you fired up your MBP yet?
Apologies if you know this already, but when you have itunes running have a look in itunes>Preferences>Playback and make sure that 'crossfade' and 'sound enhancer' and 'sound check' are all unchecked (this is the default I think). Also look at Window>Equalizer and make sure that the equalizer is also unchecked (I think this is on by default). If any of these are turned on then I don't think you get 'bit perfect' playback.
Gav
Posted on: 07 March 2011 by totemphile
@likesmusic - I would think that a bit perfect copy is the same whether it's been ripped by a MBP, PC or Naim kit. Replay might be another thing though and that's probably where sonic advantages can be gained most. However, I suppose it is fair to say that a very high level of SQ and, therefore, audio enjoyment can be reached by playing high quality files off your MB (either through optical out or a more sophisticated connection such as a Hiface/DC1), through Sonos / SB or another medium, and into the SN DAC or even better still the nDAC. It then becomes a question of convenience and available budget whether you go for an all Naim set up or a mix of the above. As Tog aptly pointed out the UnitiServe seems like a very expensive solution for what it does, when the same or nearly the same results can be gained by spending far less. Hence my choice. I guess the good news is that with the nDAC Naim has brought out a product, which allows even those with a more moderate budget to improve their source in a big way and bring a high-end source to their existing set up. Of course it does not stop there, you just might like to add one more box or two, but then that’s Naim for better or worse. I am not complaining, quite the contrary, I think the move towards digital audio will allow many to enjoy a higher standard of SQ for less money (as opposed to CD playback), if they so choose or are constraint by their available budget. That should be seen as good news….
Posted on: 07 March 2011 by totemphile
Thanks Gav, I somwhat did but not where to find the settings. Cheers!
Originally Posted by gav111n:
Hi tp,
Have you fired up your MBP yet?
Apologies if you know this already, but when you have itunes running have a look in itunes>Preferences>Playback and make sure that 'crossfade' and 'sound enhancer' and 'sound check' are all unchecked (this is the default I think). Also look at Window>Equalizer and make sure that the equalizer is also unchecked (I think this is on by default). If any of these are turned on then I don't think you get 'bit perfect' playback.
Gav
Posted on: 07 March 2011 by manicm
Originally Posted by totemphile:
Well, if you spoke to a Naim dealer you are likely to be told that there is a big difference between the two. I had a long conversation with a Naim dealer here in Germany and according to him there is a huge difference in SQ between CDs ripped by the nServe and CDs ripped on a MBP, using iTunes or other types of software. In his view rips from iTunes sounded pretty awful and he was adamant that you could hear the difference and quite clearly so. Is this really the case or is it what you would say if your business was selling Naim gear? I don't know. It will be an interesting journey to find out. My starting point is the MBP and I will want to judge everything with my own ears from here on. All I can say is that I ripped a classical album the other day on my old hp compaq nc6000 laptop using a standard MS Mediaplayer. I could not tell the difference between that WAV file being played back via a Sonos ZP 90 into the my SuperNait's internal DAC (using a Naim DC1 RCA/RCA cable interconnect) and the original CD being played on my CDX2.2/Hiline as the source. Tbh, I was pretty gobsmacked when I did this quick and dirty comparison. So what does this all mean then? I would think that it just may be possible to produce some very fine results using a Macbook Pro and iTunes or whatever other ripping software. Yes maybe the nServe is better and the HDX even better still but how much better and is that difference worth the additional outlay? Only you can judge that. At the end of the day it is also a question of how much money one has or is willing to spend. I am sure there are many ways to go about this and many satisfactory solution. Although to be fair, if money was no object, I would probably get an nServe or HDX instead, for convenience reasons alone and hopefully they would sound better too
Well I can certainly tell you something right now - on my same laptop using same iTunes, AIFF clearly sounds superior to Apple Lossless, and thus for lossless/uncompressed audio the latter format would be my very last choice.
Posted on: 07 March 2011 by totemphile
Not that I have made the comparisons myself but there seems to be a general agreement here that not all lossless files are / sound the same, so that's not really a contentious point, I don't think. Which of the lot is the preferred file format, is something everyone needs to find out for himself. To me the more interesting question is whether the same file format ripped on a MBP using iTunes or the UnitiServe will sound any different? As I understand it the Serve only rips in WAV, iTunes has that option too. Will the two sound different, if played back through the same medium into the same DAC? If not, then a MBP would do the job just as well. Whether you then prefer WAV, FLAC, AIFF or ALAC is an entirely different question. My comments were in that context, questioning the need for such an expensive ripping and serving solution as the Serve...
Posted on: 07 March 2011 by likesmusic
Folk are generalising far too much; just because a WAV file is sounds better than a FLAC file when played back on an NDX or whatever doesn't mean "WAV sounds better than FLAC" across the board for all products and ways of decompressing it. A more parsimonious conclusion is that the NDX can't do as good a job with FLAC as it can with WAV.
Posted on: 07 March 2011 by js
I hear the least differences on kit that I hear the least on in general. Self fullfilling prophesy stuff here.
Posted on: 08 March 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk
I have commented a few times on this forum, if you are hearing differences in wave and FLAC playback, then you are hearing artefacts in your decoder / renderer. Also if you are hearing this then it is also probable wave files encoded by different encoders/rippers sound different. There are different ways the PCM can be validly packaged up in a wave file by the encoder, the PCM is however identical, but your decoder has to work differently to put the PCM together in software. This of course the same that is happening with FLAC, but the decoder might have to work harder. This in itself can produce side affects, arguably this is a compromise or deficiency in the decoder design.
Simon
Posted on: 10 March 2011 by zorba
Using itunes and AIFF, so far so good, very simple really. Only doing a few albums at a time then take mbp to work and get itunes to do all the track and album info as no internet access at home.
I do have one issue, any idea what can be done about this;
Last track on the Urban Hymns album by the Verve called Come On has a track recording/play time of 15:15 but has an actual song play time of 6:33 leaving a long silence till the end of the track. Is there a way to delete the 8:42 that is a waste of memory space?
Also don't know if this helps anyone but I had a small problem with another song on another album where the ripping process froze for a while and kept starting and restarting the cd drive. I stopped importing and tried again with success. I think the cd had been played a few times too many in the car and had a scratch which clashed with error correction and may have caused this. I played this track back after importing and heard a few pops at a particular point so I deleted it and re imported again but it still had the pops.
I deleted again and imported again but this time with NO error correction and it seems to have got rid of the pops, maybe from a scratch on the disc. I have turned error correction on again but may use this procedure again if it arises.
Posted on: 10 March 2011 by Guido Fawkes
If iTunes fails to rip the odd CD then try an alternative ripper like XLD just for that one CD. This has worked for me. XLD is free.
I just checked the Verve track you mention and it is also 15:15 in my iTunes library.
The easiest way is to select the track - then Ctrl-Click and Get Info On the option tag you can set the start and stop time.
You can also use Audacity. This will let you edit the file and you can simply delete the bit at the end you don't want. Once Again Audacity is free. Here is a video to show you how to do it
All the best, Guy
Posted on: 10 March 2011 by zorba
Many thanks for taking the trouble for a very informative how to do post. I will for the moment go for the easy route and enter a start/stop time.
cheers
Posted on: 12 March 2011 by zorba
Sorry to bump the thread again but another queery, am I getting AIFF?
I have import settings set to AIFF, Auto and error correction on as above but when checking my music folder using the finder window the imported music comes up as .AIF after the track name.
In itunes when clicking the advanced tab it gives an option to create an AIFF version.
