Where has the NDX into Hugo thread gone?

You haven't heard a Macbook pro 2010 SSD 8gb with audirvana until you have heard a MacBook Pro 2010 SSD 8gb with audirvana sitting on Nordost sort cones resonance feet and powered by a Paul Hynes SR7 power supply.

i don't have one of these Hugo doovies but it sounds great with my Naim DAC XPS2DR.  If claims that the Hugo trumps it then in theory the benefits will be even greater.  

this must be covered somewhere but what does Hugo use as an analogue output stage.  Can't be anything special.  Is it op amps?  Not being derogatory but in my experience everything matters So this has to be the weak point in the design, in theory, and the point where a non portable design can make the difference, all be it at a cost.

i

No opamps.

it uses output from DAC stage directly, avoiding negative impact from additional active stages.

Briz - are you optical out into the Naim dac or via a Firewire / USB to S/PDIF converter ?

Really?  Directly from the DAC?  I though the Chord DACs were implemented in FPGAs.  I didn't know FPGAs with analogue sections existed (that sort of contradicts the 'G', well except for transmission gates anyway).  I do agree no integrated opamps though, they tend to have SQ problems in this sort of application.

How are the out-of band frequencies suppressed?  Of course for a headphone output, frequencies in the RF bands will be mechanically integrated (but I'm not sure I'd want the EMI emission so close to my head).

Huge

You're right. I was recalling from memory and it was not right. Hugo has a single opamp and no separate headphone driver. That's where I got mixed up

Now Hugo has a single active stage - a very high performance op-amp with a discrete op-stage as a hybrid with a single global feedback path. This arrangement means that you have a single activestage, two resistors and two capacitors in the direct signal path -  and that is it. Note: there is no headphone drive. Normal high performance DAC's have 3 op-amp stages, followed by a separate headphoneamp. So to conclude - Hugo's analogue path is not a simple couple of op-amps chucked together, it is fundamentally simpler than all other headphone amp solutions.

Huge, the Hugo has its own discrete proprietary DACs. They are visible on the PCB. The FPGA is the micro controller that controls the DSP and digital shaping as well as some of the digital transport logic. The FPGA device a relatively large amount of DSP processing for a small amount of power and noise.

So with the Hugo the FPGA and DAC components are quite separate.

Simon

If you feel like this about active stages you might be better off with a passive pre-amp too. Another possibility is it simply a cost-saving.

how is the output stage of the Hugo?

discrete or op-amp?

Thanks for the explanation Simon, I had misunderstood their literature.

From the literature I had assumed they were using the FPGA as a flexible DSD / PCM to PDM (or PWM) converter and digital filter, followed by a multi-pole analogue integrator.

You have the benefit of seeing one!

By 'discrete proprietary DAC' do you mean it's made from discrete components or a proprietary (AS?)IC discrete from the FPGA?

Huge - as one delves down the info gets less detailed, but according to their literature the FPGA is based on a Spartan 6 chip and is responsible for SPDIF decoding, USB timing, DPLL,WTA filtering, DSD decoding and filtering, volume control, cross-feed, control, noise shaping and DAC  [signal processing/modulation]. According to Xilinx, the manufacturer  the Spartan 6 range is ideal for low power applications.. -"Spartan-6 FPGAs offer advanced power management technology, up to 150K logic cells, integrated PCI Express® blocks, advanced memory support, 250MHz DSP slices, and 3.2Gbps low-power transceivers."

This then feeds a separate discrete  so called "4e Pulse Array" DAC with its own dual low noise low impedance PSU. This device is proprietary and they don't state what is it is made up of. 

The I2V and output stage is described as being based around a discrete Class A output stage. Again is it not clear how this is made up. The PCB does show what might be discrete transistors - three per channel.

Simon

Thanks Simon, your post substantially increases my understanding.

30 hours ! (ouch). Yep, that deserves a write-up. Looking forward to your comments.

Jan

Publish and be damned! This is a hifi forum after all so please I'd like to hear some real opinion from someone that's heard them both, even though I've not really got any plans on buying a DAC. My next expenditure will be on digital storage / server solutions.

Louis, yep I'd be interested to read your conclusion - perhaps also with the albums/tracks you used - that can provide insights into your tastes and preferences sometimes.

I did something similar when comparing the NDS to NDAC/555PS and NDAC/555PS to Hugo.

Cheers

Simon

Hugo has another positive review in HiFi Critic.

While the review was positive, I found it lacking in substance. It was not clear to me how the listening section justified the conclusions. The review seemed hurried... I expected more, given that each issue costs me CDN $34 (that's 2 CDs).

Jan

Thanks. Please find below my personal (subjective) assessment of the Hugo, as well as my own opinion on how I feel it compares with my (now sold) CDS3 and to my TeddyDac.

My streamer is a Nad M50/M51 (with Oyaide Continental 5S USB cable connecting the hard drive to the streamer). I chose it  as it fully supports Qobuz and Spotify, and provides stellar quality via its USB connection to the M51 hard drive. For my assessment I listened mainly to 16 bits via the M51 (although similar observations can be made when comparing via Qobuz or 320kbps via Spotify)

Music I listened to to make my assessment are (but not exclusive)-mainly 16 bits

• Cowboy Junkies (any album…but one of my favourite is The Wilderness
• Jesse Cook (The Blue Guitar Sessions)
• Nouvelle Vague (Acoustic)
• Regina Spektor (Far)
• Kings of Convenience (Quiet is the new Loud)
• Barenaked Ladies (Gordon)
• Syd Matters (A whisper and a Sigh eg. “Have a Nice Day&rdquo
• Yello(The Anthology eg. Stay)
• Youn Sun Nah (Lento)

The Chord Hugo sound is a bit different to Naim or Teddy. And because they are different, a thorough listen was needed for me to make an opinion.

The past 3 days have been quite enjoying, as I had the kids (and wife!) at the grandparents, so was alone to do some serious listening. For the low price of 2000 euros, I was clear that I would buy the Hugo if it was better than my current TDac. Not because I do not like what I have now, but because I (like many here) like to have the best possible. I take some pride in that, I admit

I read somewhere in the Naim forum that the Hugo is similar in musicality to aCDS3, but with more details. That is what grabbed my attention, having really enjoyed my CDS3 in the past. Well, after some listen to the Hugo, I can only partly agree. While it “sounds” similar to a CDS3, and while it is clearly a bit more resolving, it does not quite have the “fun factor” I normally expect when listening to a CDS3 (and even my older CD5x, cannot comment on other Naim sources). Why is that, I do not know… Could be the optical cord, or maybe that is the just the Chord sound. Cannot say for sure.

To my ears, the Hugo strengths are in its very good analogue sound, its good level of details (although I have seen much better eg NAD M51), its precise imaging (vs both CDS3 and Teddy), and a very good ability to handle complex passages (on par with CDS3, better than TeddyDac).

On the other hand:  I found the Hugo sound a bit “dull” and a bit too “laidback” to my taste (and in my system). While it seems to “check all boxes” rather quite well, I very often felt “disconnected” from the music, focusing more on details/architecture, less on the musical message. Maybe because I have a 252 (less “forward” than a 282), and/or maybe because my speakers (SF Cremona Auditors) are already on the warm side? I really donot know…but in MYsystem, the Hugo missed out a little bit on the emotion of the music.

To my ears, the TeddyDac sounds a more real than Hugo (in mysystem). It has more “bite”, more “air” and a lot more”presence”. With Teddy I sense more emotions, the voices are more present, the acoustic instruments sound much more like the real thing. It is not as “sophisticated” as with the Hugo, but the Teddy timbres are a big deal better in my view (more tube like via Teddy). I recall the same feeling when I had my CDS3 (although I strongly prefer the TeddyDac for its natural timbres).

I am glad I made this comparison, as it confirmed how important it is to check for “system matching” before buying a new component, no matter how good it can be. In the right system, I am sure Hugo can be a stunner, and I can see why some people can swap some very expensive components in favorof Hugo.

Kind regards,

Louis-Andre

Louis, thanks for your write up. 

You are a testament to the value of trying before buying to check system synergy and tastes.

Simon

Louis-Andre,

thanks for the excellent write-up. It's clear that you've taken an extremely balanced, well thought-through approach to your evaluation and I would very much agree with your conclusion re. the importance of system matching. 

As you say, the Hugo may be the best solution for some people, others may find greater enjoyment elsewhere - it's largely a matter of system matching and individual taste.

Best regards,

Philip

Louis-Andre

I tend to agree with  your descriptions. However do try the coax SPDIF if you have not done so. I found it to be more 'involving' but with somewhat less 'resolution' than the optical, having compared them (with the cables I had on hand)  after about 75-100 hrs play time.

My guess is the analogue stage in the CDS3 is much better and the one in the older CD5x is better.

Guys, you are all emphasising on system matching after Louis comprehensive review of the Hugo. Question arises - didn't naim source/DAC is the best match with naim amplifiers?  

I would say it is more of personal preference and expectations. 

On another note, I am intrigued to know how you earth your Naim gears with Hugo in between the chain since Naim use their source as earthing point.