Where has the NDX into Hugo thread gone?

Gents,

my experience is that use of a good quality preamp, even when the DAC can drive the power amp, will always produce best sonic results. 

I spoke to dCS ref a Debussy, and my local Chord dealer (I'm using a Qute EX with an LPS at the mo) about the same thing recently.  Both confirmed the respective units can drive most power amps, but best results come from using a really good pre.  

My own take  from this that the DAC output stages are limited when trying to drive larger voltages and real loads which is probably not too surprising when you consider the size of the power supplies in the   units. 

YMMV In your system of course

Mr Frog (and you should give yourself a good avatar with a name like that) I leave my Hugo on 24/7 with its little power block unless I am away for several days and then I unplug all my audio equipment including  switching off the Hugo.

Simon

Thanks Simon - I knew I could rely on you for some 'sound' advice 

My system is sounding the best it has for years. I had a Linn Ikemi CD player before replacing it with a Naim ND5XS and to be honest, there wasn't a massive difference (to my ears!) in sound quality but it gave me the convenience of streaming etc and since Linn had stopped supporting their CD players, I was rather concerned about it not lasting much longer than the 10 years I had already owned it.

I tried a Naim DAC on both the Ikemi and ND5XS before committing to the purchase of the ND5XS and although there was a difference, it wasn't big enough for me personally to justify the outlay on the DAC.

The ND5XS sounded great for a few years, but the addition of a Hugo is absolutely huge. 

I have disregarded the idea of adding an external PSU to the ND5XS and am more than happy with it playing through the Hugo using Chord Prodac Vee3 (BNC to Hugo modified RCA) and my active ATC set up (SCA2 preamp and SCM50 ASL)

To my ears, the addition of the Hugo is on par with the experience I had when going active.

I've just finished installing a separate ring main for the Network equipment and other SMPS 'gear', leaving the Naim and ATC equipment on the its dedicated clean ring main circuit.

All sounding absolutely fantastic.

Thanks again

Thanks Simon,

Yes, the unit was new when I brought it home, so I'm thinking that the reason why I think that the SQ has improved is because of some form of burn-in.

The funny thing is that when I listened to it yesterday, it seemed to have reverted back to factory SQ... (burn-out?). The only thing I did in-between was trying it out using the HD-USB input fed by my SBT with the EDO mod. Hardly the reason, so it's probably just in my head!

I'm leaving it on all the time (with exceptions of course) and the charger connected except when listening.

Peter

Colin I can see what you are saying but I really must point out two things:

(a) The designer of the Hugo said bypass your pre-amp.  So you trust this guy enough to spend £1,500 on one of his products but not enough to listen to him about setup.  Hmmm!

(b) When you say that the pre-amp cannot drive enough cable down a realistic cable length then yes I could accept that if I had spent say £100 on a DAC but NOT £1,500 on a DAC.  I would, for that money, expect everything in that case to be a very high standard.

Many people have talked about the matching of a pre and power amp being the cause of this mystical additive properties of a good pre-amp.  But the matching of a pre and power amp is not that complex, certainly much less complex than matching a Moving Coil cartridge to a phono amp or power-amp to loudspeakers.  It is just making sure that the pre-amp can deliver enough power (low output impedance) down a cable to a power-amp which does not have such a low input impedance that it starts to "load" the pre-amp.  I am also assuming that both would have a flat frequency response, certainly if they both have a bump or a dip at the same frequency that would not bode well.

Anyway it's up to you.

Does anyone know if the Hugo product has high-speed Opto-isolators in the USB input?

this is used to isolate a device from from the SMPS and RFI from the noisy computer.

I know the NDX has such isolators, what about the DAC V1?

Correct Mr Wat, the NDX doesn't have an asynchronous USB input.

yes I think the NDX has them for the ethernet and other inputs?

I don't know what isolation the Hugo has. Galvanic isolation is very low frequency / DC isolation used to avoid earth / ground loops or grounding issues. Galvanic isolation has no or little affect on RFI.

Simon

Big Bill,

You believe everything that designers and manufacturers say about their equipment Hmmm.  I prefer to trust my ears. 

£1500 is not an expensive DAC, and if you refer to the Naim preamps with or without separate power supplies you will note this is chump change.  I'm not sure I would expect miracles from a DAC as a preamp in a very revealing system and neither did the dCS rep i spoke with who said for best results use a preamp

As I said previously I don't use a Hugo. I use a Qute EX. I will try a Hugo, or more likely the QBD76replacement when it shows up.

As as you say, it's up to me

Don't be silly Colin I don't believe everything that anyone says and in fact I never said that I did.  You are simply bending what I said, which was: "(a) The designer of the Hugo said bypass your pre-amp.  So you trust this guy enough to spend £1,500 on one of his products but not enough to listen to him about setup.  Hmmm!" 

The only thing you got right about what I said was "Hmmm!", at least my Hmmm was original.

To suddenly make this into me believing everything a designer says is true is an outright lie.  In fact this sounds more like a description of you:

"neither did the dCS rep i spoke with who said for best results use a preamp"

Who was this rep?  One of the designers or a salesmen?  Obviously a great oracle on HiFi for you to believe everything he said.

£1,500 may not be a lot of money to you but for most people it is and the thought of it having an inferior analog output stage is disturbing.

Not sure what chump change means but at just under £2,000 the price of a Naim NAC 202 pre amplifier is of a similar order to a Hugo and has much more in the way of switches and sockets and psu hardware.  These will of course bump up the price.

I would not expect miracles (feeding the 5,000 etc) from a DAC as a pre-amp either and that is not what I said.  A pre-amp has a number of functions, whereas the output stage on a DAC has only to provide voltage and current gain.

But the thing is that you still have to go through the Hugo output stage whether or not you use an add-on pre-amp from NAIM or anyone else.  Can you tell me how this pre-amp that you do not rate highly suddenly is improved when it is passed through a NAIM pre-amp - after all weakest links and that.

Out of interest Bill. If and when you buy a Hugo, what system do you have? Will you bypass the preamp? If I could get the requisite phono-XLR cables I would give it a go but it would never be permanent as it would be too much hassle to change the cables when I wanted to listen to vinyl.

Yes I totally agree with you Steve, you have just highlighted one of the reasons for having a pre-amp.  It is a kind of control centre.  No my point wasn't that you should cut out the pre-amp, although I seem to have been criticised for saying that.  Nor have I heard a Hugo with or without a separate pre-amp.  No I think the guy who designed the Hugo has a long and successful string of designs behind him, he is someone who knows his onions.  So if he says something then it is most probably wise to listen to what he says and no I am not saying I believe everything he says.  But he knows a lot more about his subject than us armchair experts.  So if you don't need all of the functionality of a classic pre-amp, ie no source switching, no phono amp, no voltage/current gain needed and you just listen to the one source as many do, then give it a try - don't know why that has angered one or two people.

I have no idea if I will buy a Hugo or not, probably not but you never know.  Up until recently I listened to analog virtually all of the time and was never convinced by CD, some players literally would give me a tooth ache.  That is why I bought a few years ago a Galibier turntable (shown in my avatar), CartidgeMan Conductor air-bearing tonearm and CartridgeMan Cartridge.  I would generally listen to only non-digital LPs, many recorded on valve kit and exclusively through valve equipment.  So I suppose you could say I was/am a bit of dinosaur.  I also am a keen DIYer and have built valve & tranny pre-amps, power-amps, tuners etc and that interest is probably more suited to analog than digital.

Then I went out and purchased a UnitiLite with KEF R700 speakers, to replace my aging Ruark Crusader IIs and for the first time I actually enjoy listening to CDs - there I have gone and said it.  Not only that I have purchased quite a few 24bit downloads and they sound stunning.  I still think a DMM 180g vinyl sounds better but this 24 bit stuff is bringing it closer.  And no tooth aches!

Yes I am really enjoying listening to music at the moment and listening more than I think I have ever done.  So why go out and spend £1,500 on a new DAC which I couldn't use with my UnitiLite anyway.  No, I am not someone who gets a HiFi itch too often, that I think is where DIY comes in, you get more enjoyment (bang) for your buck.

I predict that you will like the Hugo. Analogue and guaranteed toothacheless.

Can't help grinning at that Jan!  You never know, the thing is change is so rapid today that we have no idea how long the Hugo will be a great buy.  I am not in the market at the moment.

Well there is no tooth-ache with the venerable Naim DAC V1, and it is substantially made, and costs a useful bit less than the Hugo as well.

Of course the need for a home dem is certain, but in terms of the solidity of the making the V1 will be alive many years after the Hugo has been replaced by something better.

I plan to run my V1 till a service is required before demonstrating any flash in the pan products, and if some of these flash in the pan products have led to a proper solid built [to last decades] type machine, I may just investigate it!

ATB from George

Bill,

Funny thing the toothaches. I've had that too in the past with certain CD players. Did you ever investigate the cause (I wonder if ultrasonics had anything to do with it ?)

Jan

George, I can assure you that the Hugo is anything but flimsy and it sounds astonishingly good. There's a video on utube showing a tank driving over a chord qbd, it probably sounded damned good at the time too, they're not Naim but they're solid enough. Most impressive bit of kit I've ever bought

I don't doubt it sounds fine!

I would never buy any equipment with a soldered in battery, however fine it sounded!

Even computers have batteries that are removable without a soldering job ...

ATG from George

Time will tell I guess but in the meantime we both have  good music to listen to 

There are many ways to get great replay. I am sure that you have one of them. But until the issue of a plug-in, user replaceable battery is addressed then I cannot find myself wanting a Hugo. I don't want the illuminations either ...

Different strokes. I buy kit to last ten to twenty years before a change is required by usage ...

My first replay set lasted seventeen years before it was replaced with a Nait 3 and CD 3.5 ...

ATB from George

Brilliant!!

Careful Wat, I was beginning to wonder if it was almost against the principle of this thread to make sense

And as for toothache, both the Hugo and Naim DACs have aluminium cases - if you bite hard enough you'll get toothache!

I've not sold my Naim DAC, and I keep looking at the sublime sleek design, the careful layout of the inputs and outputs and can't stop myself thinking "Why can't the internal components be updated ?" Is this the way forward for the Naim DAC?