Where has the NDX into Hugo thread gone?

NDX. Going to demo the Auralic Aries see if it can replace the NDX. Have thought about going down the mac mini route, but think this is too configuration specific, need something simpler. Plug and play.

Graeme

Got it...I use Windows based PC, it gives me a lot of flexibility, so I like it.

Problem is i know what im like and with so much flexibility, worrying about which software package to use let alone configuration options, i'll spend more time fussing about which sounds better rather than sitting, listening and enjoying the music.

Hi Graeme

I am in the same dilemma . Have auditioned the Hugo with a imac only (and yes it was very good), the Aries interests me greatly as you can stream DSD

If possible can you dem both models and feed back your thoughts compared to the Ndx

Many Thanks

Brian

 Hi Brian

I will do, though doubt it will be for a few weeks or so.

Would imagine the resale value of the NDX would cover the cost of the Auralic, so as long as the sound quality is on a par with the NDX, i'll go down this route.

I'm expecting more units like the Aries to hit the market as it seems a bit of hole there.

Graeme

Would this not do away with the benefit of DSD, if there is any, if converting to FLAC.

It may work, but I would take seriously advertisement HDTT uses "No PCM Editing", if you want to achieve the best of best. Any conversion may degrade SQ. 

I play DSD 128 straight from JRiver, and it is something I experienced only listening my friends LP12, far the best SQ in digital world, IMO. Thanks to little shiny Dac to get me there...

One other benefit of moving away form the NDX will be being able to get rid of this monstrosity of an iPad that has to be used to run nstream.

You have to buy one to use as a remote, then you try to use it for other stuff and you realise how completely crap it is.

Dreadful thing, sorry apple lovers. Rant over

No doubt at that point Naim will release the android version.

Did i read a post mentioning that Hugo converts DSD to PCM anyway?

What's going on inside, I can't comment, and honestly, I don't care. Some people like to understand how things work and why. It hurts my brain too much, so I worry only, what comes out of my speakers. That's exactly what I'm talking about here, and I would like to get more opinions from this forum if it's just me or there is something special in DSD 128 (double DSD).

Wat

Are you saying if i purchase "Duke Ellington's Indigos in DSD 128 format", i should be able to stream this directly from my NAS running Minimserver to the NDX.

Or i need to convert this to FLAC first??

Does dbpower amp convert this, if not what application would you use.

This came up in the 'DSD on Unitiserve' thread (not sure how to link the thread). I have copied my post below. It works with my SB Touch and Hugo.

 'The process you describe is exactly the workaround used by some in the Squeezebox and other communities. One has to convert the DSD files (DSF or DFF) to DoP FLAC files using Foobar. As a FLAC file it can then be sent to a DoP compliant DAC. From this the DAC then knows to decode it as native DSD.

 It is a bit of a faff but easily doable. If I can do it anyone can. I tried it with some free DSD test tracks to see if it worked with my SBT and Hugo. Which it does. And the resultant playback sounds excellent. 

 There is a thorough walk through on the AudioCircle forum in the 'How to Use the Squeezebox Touch to play DSD files on a DoP compatible DAC' thread. 

Also on the squeezebox forum in the Touch section 'DSD downloads from Acoustic Sounds w/ Touch' thread.

I had a similar (at least I think so - as SACD and DSD are related) case today whereupon  I wanted to play an SACD image on my NDX. I converted to FLAC using J River built-in converter (but also down-sampled to 88k as the sampling would be at 352k which NDX does not support). Listening to the stuff as we speak :-)

SamS

i never new this, thanks for the info. I have a copy of foobar on a pc at home and will look into it. is DoP flac different to standard flac and do you need to download a plugin for foobar or is it incorporated by default.

Graeme

I wish there was one standard format, DXD, DSD, DFF, WAV, FLAC and now DoP. Bloody confusing

+1 to that. The MacMini/Audirvana route is extremely easy to set up and use. You don't hear of many problems on the forum with this system.  It is effectively plug and play with a USB cable and the Hugo.

I've seen the Sonore software.  I think that some use it as a way to pull music off of sacd's (as .dsf) and then convert to flac if you don't own a player (that can play the sacd iso) or dac (that can play .dsf) directly.  

I was thinking of getting a couple of .dsf albums and converting to flac, but have no idea if there is any 'benefit' to this.

Graeme - Foobar will need the flac plugin which you may already have and one other file for the DSD. More info on the Audio Circle site I mentioned but I have copied the meat of the workflow below (it may get zapped because there are some links in there). Good luck & enjoy. Sam

3. Use Foobar As A DSF to DoP File Converter

For this step, Foobar is used as a file converter, not a media player.  These instructions are for a Windows PC since that’s what I use.  You may already have Foobar and FLAC installed on your PC. 

1.   Install Foobar2000: http://www.foobar2000.org/

2.   Install FLAC Frontend: http://download.cnet.com/windo..._content;contentBody

3.   Download the "foo_input_packeddsd.dll" file and place it in the C:\Program Files\foobar2000\components folder:https://docs.google.com/file/d...czBjYVByNUdjdDg/edit

4.   Start Foobar and go to "File->Preferences ->Components" to make sure "foo_input_packeddsd.dll" shows up in the installed components box.

5.   Go to "File->Preferences ->Tools->SACD" and set the following configuration:

• ASIO Driver Mode: DSD
• PCM Sample Rate: 176400
• DSD2PCM mode: DSD over PCM
• Click on "Enable Tags"

Note: Foobar may need to be restarted for these setting to load for conversion.

6.   Use "File->Open” to load DSF or DFF files for conversion into a Foobar playlist.  Highlight all the files in the playlist, right click and select "Convert".  Choose the “…“ option and set FLAC as the output format.  Set other conversion options (output folder, file name pattern, etc.) here.  My preference is to set the sub-folder name to “artist - album” and file name to “nn. title”.

7.   Hit the “Convert” button to begin the batch conversion process.  The first time you run conversion you will be prompted for the location of FLAC.exe.  Most likely it’s in C:\Program Files\FLAC Frontend\tools. 

8.   Some DSF metadata will carry over to the DoP encoded FLAC file but cover art will need to be reattached.  Cover art and metadata in the DoP FLAC file can be edited just like any other FLAC file.  I add “(DSD DoP)” to the end each folder name and album title to differentiate it from the same album in other formats.

9.   Before batch converting a bunch of files, convert a few test files, index them in LMS, and play them to make sure they decode as native DSD.  

10.   If the files don’t play back correctly, Check the following:

• Verify that all four parameters on the "File->Preferences ->Tools->SACD" Foobar screen are configured as documented above.
• Verify that the EDO app is installed and configured correctly on the SBT.  Every time the SBT’s firmware is updated, EDO must be reinstalled and configured. 
• Verify that the PCM stream from the playback software to the DAC is PCM bit-perfect.

That’s it.  Once the files are converted by Foobar and indexed in LMS, you’re ready to enjoy your DSD music through the Squeezebox Touch.

SamS

Many many thanks, will hopefully get time to try this out over the weekend.

be interesting to see if i can hear any difference. Will try some free tracks from 2L i think.

Graeme

I will have to check out 2L. I got my free downloads from Blue Coast Records. 

i thought I'd point out that Rob Watts, the Hugo designer, has posted on the headfi web site a level / colour coding chart. 

Therefore with the NAC 282 with 75mV input sensitivity (I assume Naim stated figures are RMS) then the optimum setting for Hugo could be orange, which is approx 100mV RMS for 0dB  full scale.  I will give this a try later to see if these reduced level into the 282 makes any difference other than giving more useful range on the NAC volume control.

Simon

I'd be interested in the broad principle Simon of lowest Hugo volume with maximised use of pre-volume vs highest Hugo volume with minimised use of pre-volume.

Are there reasons one should sound better than the other?

G

Graeme, there are pros and cons.. So it will be down to subjective assesment. On one hand one is reducing the signal and possible soft overloading on the NAC but on the other hand as garmtz said above the noise level will be relatively higher... 

Simon

Graeme, try it! It really makes an interesting difference. I have swapped my interconnects from Naim Hiline  to Morrow Audio MA6 with Bullet connectors...and set the level to yellow/green.

The audio sounds slightly less Naim like, but paradoxically the feel of timing has increased, and there is an attractive different approach to layers and textures in the mix, voices in the choir or instruments in the orchestra...it makes you want to listen to the music louder than before.... Try it.  

Simon