Killing Wildlife

Posted by: JamieWednesday on 22 June 2014

I and most of my neighbours delight in the wildlife that visit our gardens around here. Numerous varieties of birds, small and large, squirrels a (huge) Hedgehog, a small number of badgers and foxes among them. Apparently not all the neighbours feel the same though, as some friends of ours have just informed us that a new neighbour of theirs, a GP apparently, has been shooting them this weekend! Apparently numerous birds and 8 squirrels over the last couple of days. Now I know why the new family of squirrels haven't been by the last day or so...

 

Over and above the sheer displeasure of the selfish actions of the one, putting his own perspective into such an unpleasant fore over the rest of us and my wonder at a 'healer' apparently taking delight in this because he doesn't like them...Simple question. Is this allowed?

 

(I've no idea what he's shooting them with but if we don't like him either, I wonder are we allowed to shoot him?)

Posted on: 29 June 2014 by Lionel

In the UK imported Grey squirrels (cute rats) have driven the native Red squirrels (even cuter rats) into the far North. Now imported Black squirrels (which are cuter than Grey but not as cute as Red) are driving both North.

 

All are vermin and their numbers need to be controlled.

Posted on: 29 June 2014 by Jasonf
Originally Posted by joerand:

If left to operate autonomously, fish and wildlife biologists would likely affect different outcomes to the management of many species than we currently see in practice. However, politics plays the predominant role in species management decisions, at least in my experience in the US. Economics are the primary driver, and so an economic importance for a species of concern must be established. Sentiment and moral high ground are usually of little importance in the large scheme. Provide an economic justification for protecting a species and politicians will listen. On the other hand, provide evidence for the species as an economic detriment, or if a species has no apparent economic value, then the game is off. Or, perhaps more accurately, then the game is game.

Yes, economics is the primary driver in an economically driven system based on short term profit and loss. That does not make it necessarily economically sound in the long term. Species management decision making is served less well economically, as described, than it is environmentally as it never considers, interdependence or environmental 'balance'  (unless you refer to the financial year).

 

When people stop seeing the human species as a separate existence from the surrounding environment and other species, that which we all depend on, then rather than discussing other species as "vermin" or "pests" they will perhaps consider the human species as the global "pest" . In terms of global habitat destruction, no species has managed more of that than the human species...

 

Lets face it, dealing with environmental/habitat issues on purely economic terms is no longer acceptable in Western governments. This change of attitude has its seeds sown way back I the 70's  and although it's been a very, very long time coming, in general most people would consider it a good thing. The move from predominantly economic decision making process to one where the environment has an equal footing is nearing and soon will be here. It will just take a very long time due mainly to an economic and social environment which is inherently conservative and resistant to change.

 

Jason.

 

 

Posted on: 29 June 2014 by Steve J

Man has a lot to do with the upset of environmental balance, not only because of economic development but also with the introduction, often accidentally, of species not native to the biosystem. There are many examples of this like rabbits in Australia. The grey squirrel isn't a native species and has endangered our own native red squirrel. It's in these situation where control is needed and why grey squirrels are classed as vermin in the same way as rat and mice. 

Another species that is expanding uncontrollably in our area are these little beauties,

 

These are originally from India but breeding colonies have flourished in this area thought to have  escaped from aviaries. We also get the Monk parakeet. They are beautiful to look at and see in flight but these feral colonies are also causing damage to the native bird species as well as to crops and electricity supplies.

 

I agree that mistakes have been made with the culling of certain species. When I was young, living in Devon, farmers used to shoot buzzards thinking they killed their lambs. When it was shown they only scavenged already dead lambs and the discarded placenta the killing stopped. I have followed the progress of the population expansion of the buzzard over the last 20 years and it's great to see them now flying where I now live in Herts. The problem we have to face though is that the populations of some species do need to be controlled. Yes, we usually cause the problem in the first place but if nothing is done then we will lose many of our native species, setting aside the economic issues.

 

Posted on: 29 June 2014 by MDS
Originally Posted by Steve J:

Man has a lot to do with the upset of environmental balance, not only because of economic development but also with the introduction, often accidentally, of species not native to the biosystem. There are many examples of this like rabbits in Australia. The grey squirrel isn't a native species and has endangered our own native red squirrel. It's in these situation where control is needed and why grey squirrels are classed as vermin in the same way as rat and mice. 

Another species that is expanding uncontrollably in our area are these little beauties,

 

These are originally from India but breeding colonies have flourished in this area thought to have  escaped from aviaries. We also get the Monk parakeet. They are beautiful to look at and see in flight but these feral colonies are also causing damage to the native bird species as well as to crops and electricity supplies.

 

I agree that mistakes have been made with the culling of certain species. When I was young, living in Devon, farmers used to shoot buzzards thinking they killed their lambs. When it was shown they only scavenged already dead lambs and the discarded placenta the killing stopped. I have followed the progress of the population expansion of the buzzard over the last 20 years and it's great to see them now flying where I now live in Herts. The problem we have to face though is that the populations of some species do need to be controlled. Yes, we usually cause the problem in the first place but if nothing is done then we will lose many of our native species, setting aside the economic issues.

 

Yes, Steve, we've got lots of these Parakeets where I live in South London.  Many years ago I saw what looked like a parrot on one of my bird feeders and I thought I must be seeing things.  I didn't realise there were loads of them living locally.  Beautiful birds with a very loud and unmistakable screech. I don't know if they have displaced any other local birds, rather as the grey squirrel has displaced the red, but if not I think they are welcome.   

Posted on: 29 June 2014 by Jasonf
Originally Posted by Briz Vegas:

To put this into perspective, I live in Brisbane Australia. You have magpies, squirrels and badgers.  We have Koalas, magpies, possums and fruit bats (flying mammals with fox like faces).  

 

How many of you would support taking out the Koala as a species.  Evil little beasts are they not, they sleep and eat gum leaves and Japanese tourists love to hold them.  Sometimes they even make a noise, god forbid.  Don't worry, they will all be dead soon in South East Queensland at the current rate of development and habitation destruction.  Fruit bats, well they have a digestive tract don't they.  They eat fruit, little b@st@rds, and about 3 % carry a disease that can be transmitted to people via horses. Now its easy enough to vaccinate horses, cos there aren't many of them, but Queensland's government would prefer to wipe out the bat near people ( who are everywhere) .  The fruit bat is only perceived as being a menace because of, you guessed it, development.  Walking home from work in the evening I avoid low trees because bats sort of plummet before they fly off While trying to avoid me. It's not hard, it just needs a little awareness.

 

Like it or not we are part of an ecosystem, we don't live apart from it.  We started using the term ecosystem services a while back, it's what nature provides us free of charge, bees to pollinate, various species to eat bugs and provide balance so that our human ecosystem can function. If we had to manage everything it would be like living on a Mars, kind of hostile, kind of expensive and kind of vulnerable.

 

Now I'm not being an animal rights nutter, I can see how problematic it is when people in my neighbourhood feed the magpies, I walk past 20 birds on a summer afternoon on one front lawn.  Killing every last bird is just as stupid and probably more detrimental to our health.  

 

Shooting animals is just as likely to injure an innocent by stander, far better to think of your back yard as an ecosystem that we share with wildlife.  We need them, there are more than enough of us. Nature doesn't stop existing just because you have new paving and pristine duco on your 2014 Golf. If it's you vege patch that you are concerned about, look up monoculture ( also know as a banquet table to the worlds critters).

 

For a smart species we are really really dumb.

Nicely put Briz.

 

Jason.

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by Willy
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

Magpies feed off eggs of any/all other birds & if hens leave them lying around they get eaten too,  then add any/all bird nestlings & fledglings, road kill & anything else lying around dead anywhere, including you if you were brownbread - its what magpies do, its the way they were designed.   Same for all the crow family crows, rooks, jackdaws etc.  Then you can add add all the varieties of eagles, buzzards & kites & in hard conditions all the other raptors & all the meat eating birds - wanna go kill those bad guys as well. 

I only intervene when the magpies learn to go into the shed and steal the eggs out of the nesting boxes. Been a couple of years since that was last required. Otherwise the're welcome to do as nature intended. 

 

Willy.

 

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by Mike-B

OK I'll get orf my twichin' birder high horse.   

 

When I was a kid we had the occasional magpie raid with the very free range eggs in the barn & outbuildings. Its amazing when one learns the hen egg locations how quickly the rest of the tribe catch on.   But in those days a magpie was a rare'ish bird - game keepers & farmers saw to that.  But we had a run of fox raids & that forced us to make a proper hen house & once the hens were trained to use it for roosting & laying - locked up at dark & let out to free roam at milking time - that was the end of the magpie problem & a darn sight easier to find & collect the eggs. 

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by joerand

Coincidences. Mike-B was just talking about them on another post here.

 

This evening was especially pleasant and warm in the Seattle area and I was on my way out to mow my lawn when I happened upon a bird laying in the lawn. An American robin, I believe. Obviously not well, although he appeared unharmed. Maybe he flew into a window and was gathering his wits? I went about other chores and gave him some time, but he just sat there. He didn't seem alarmed by my presence, so I gathered him gently into a plastic tote lined with a soft towel and removed him to a quiet, safe area on my porch. He seemed content. When I returned about an hour later he had expired. He appeared full grown, so I have to assume it was just the natural end for him. I dug a deep hole in my compost/topsoil pile and buried him there.

 

I was thinking about his end as I finished mowing. Not a bad way for a wild animal to leave this life, really. Left to himself in a peaceful area, unmolested by would-be predators. On a warm and lovely evening approaching sunset.