Naim Audio Forum Archive

Posted on: 12 March 2011 by sheffieldgraham

" Quote from firmware update instructions:
"Note. The DAC will both upgrade and downgrade. It is therefore important
that you ascertain what firmware versions are already installed and know
what firmware versions you are about to install." "

This seems to imply that the previous firmware version is restorable. It does not indicate that this can be done by the user or requires dealer or Naim HQ intervention.
Not a very comprehensive instruction!

Naim should avoid the Apple routine of allowing updates that are not reversible. I had a bad experience of this with the ios-4.1, replay interrupts, and the IOS 4.2 update which would not allow my i-pod touch to dock with the nDAC. Thankfully Naim provided a firmware download which rectified the problem.

It seems to me in light of current experiences with the Naim FLAC update and Apple's previous updates that a retrograde path should be available. This is an appeal to Naim to acknowledge that software mods. are intricately complex, which can introduce as many problems as it solves in the short term. I, and I'm sure many others desire a restoration routine to previous upgrade versions should any bugs arise as a result of an "upgrade".

I hope that Paul Stephenson or Hjalmar Nilsson take the time to respond to this appeal.

Regards,
Graham

Posted on: 13 March 2011 by AMA

Hi, those nDAC 396 update threads are breeding, but I guess this one is taking a lead.

I have no problem in playing 24/96 -- no glitches, pops, stutering -- it's all clean.
I do have a stuttering problem with 24/192 files. Let's see if Naim can solve it. The processing efforts between 24/96 and 24/192 is almost the same in CPU scales -- this is most probably a software/buffering problem which can be solved through the code improvement.

Meantime there was ANOTHER problem -- some regular 16-44 FLACs were not recognized by nDAC. This one is caused by some metadata recorded in FLAC tags. You may not see anything through Foobar -- but it's there. In this case just remove the metadata, for example using Foobar-->Properties->Tools->Remove Tags and this file will be recognized by nDAC and plays OK. You can then put all the regular tags back: Artists, Album, Genre manually -- no problem, it plays OK. There is some problem with some invisible metadata. I hope this problem is easier then stuttering on 24-192.

Posted on: 13 March 2011 by ozzyan

24/192 FLAC - constant stuttering
24/96 FLAC - stuttering but less frequent
16/44 FLAC - plays OK

24/192 WAV - loud pops (let's say one or two per song)
24/96 WAV - same as 24/192 WAV
16/44 WAV - plays OK

Identical behavior on both front and back USB. I had no problems with hi-rez WAV before 396!

Posted on: 13 March 2011 by AMA

In my nDAC both FLAC 24/96 and WAV 24/96 play OK.

I tried very clean and quiet records -- no glitches.

Posted on: 13 March 2011 by AMA

By the way WAV 24/192 plays OK as well. Interesting.

I tried very clean and quiet records -- no glitches.

So far I have only two complains: FLAC 24/192 is stuttering and some FLACs with metadata are not recognized.

I read the other members complains and I think I'm the lucky one.

Posted on: 13 March 2011 by Kuja

Using M-Audio USB Audiophile soundcard, I recorded Naim DAC playing from USB stick the first two tracks from HDtracks free sampler download:

https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=samplealbumdownload&ialbum_id=6446

Original HDtracks FLACs were converted to WAV, using Flac 1.2.1b.

Here are the recorded examples of glitches/pops that I'm experiencing with 24/96 WAVs:

http://rapidshare.com/files/452323182/_NDAC_GLITCH.zip

In this zip file you have four short samples containing the glitches.

Here is the screen capture of a zoomed in waveform of one of the glitches:

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/57/glitch1.gif

Posted on: 13 March 2011 by Kuja

Originally Posted by AMA:

In my nDAC both FLAC 24/96 and WAV 24/96 play OK.

I tried very clean and quiet records -- no glitches.

Maybe it is due to some differences in the files we tried?

Can you download this free HDtracks sampler and try the first couple of songs:

https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=samplealbumdownload&ialbum_id=6446

Convert them from FLAC to WAV.

I'm getting loud pops with these and I posted the samples from the first two songs in my previous post.

I'm also getting pops with Keith Jarrett's Koln Concert 24/96 download.

With nDAC's SPDIF input, using Squeezebox Touch as a transport, the playback is flawless.

So the files are OK.

.

Posted on: 13 March 2011 by Kuja

And yes, play each song few times repeatedly - I'm not having glitches every time.

Posted on: 13 March 2011 by AMA

Originally Posted by Kuja:

Samples of glitches/pops that I'm getting with 24/96 WAVs:

http://rapidshare.com/files/45...182/_NDAC_GLITCH.zip

In this zip file you have four short samples containing the glitches.

Kuja, I downloaded these short samples and they DO have glitches.

But the original files from HD Tracks are all OK -- no glitches through USB/nDAC.

BTW -- these short samples have glitches through Foobar/HiFace so I guess you spoiled them somehow during the download or conversion.

Posted on: 13 March 2011 by Kuja

Originally Posted by AMA:

Originally Posted by Kuja:

Samples of glitches/pops that I'm getting with 24/96 WAVs:

http://rapidshare.com/files/45...182/_NDAC_GLITCH.zip

In this zip file you have four short samples containing the glitches.

Kuja, I downloaded these short samples and they DO have glitches.

But the original files from HD Tracks are all OK -- no glitches through USB/nDAC.

BTW -- these short samples have glitches through Foobar/HiFace so I guess you spoiled them somehow during the download or conversion.

Maybe I was not clear enough in my description....

Those four samples were recorded by me, from the analog outputs of nDAC, while it was playing 24/96 WAVs.

They are exact presentation of what I'm hearing through the loudspeakers while I'm playing high-rez WAVs with the new firmware.

Files are not corrupted, these glitches are produced by nDAC and recorded by me.

Original HDtracks files have no glitches in them.

Posted on: 13 March 2011 by AMA

Oh, I see now.

Posted on: 15 March 2011 by Kuja

Two days ago, I wrote an email to Naim support, explaining the situation and I asked If they could send me the old firmware.

Right now, due to the glitches, I can not play high rez music through USB stick, something I was able to do before the new firmware.

I haven't received any answer yet.

What are your experiences regarding the Naim customer/technical support?

Posted on: 15 March 2011 by gav111n

Kuja,

If you're stuck, you can still get the previous firmware via the following thread. Scroll down a bit and you will see the links.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...ent/1566878606642405

The nDAC is supposed to downgrade as well as upgrade, but I haven't tried it as I don't have any problems (and also I didn't bother with the latest firmware update).

Gav

Posted on: 15 March 2011 by Kuja

I had the same idea and I downloaded that firmware before I tried to contact Naim.

Unfortunately, the files in two firmwares are not the same.

Latest "FLAC" firmware includes these files:

BF.ldr

BFIN.ldr

BOOTL.ldr

SHARC.ldr

Previous firmware has only two files:

BF.ldr

SH.ldr

I'm afraid that if try to install this previous firmware, I will get some halfbreed thing:

some functions will be left from the new firmware, some functions will be from the old one.

Is anyone from Naim reading this forum?

I can not believe that they didn't test this firmware more extensively, with various high-rez file types of higher bit rates, before releasing it to the public.

It even does not do things well that previous firmware did.

.

Posted on: 17 March 2011 by sheffieldgraham

Originally Posted by Kuja:

I had the same idea and I downloaded that firmware before I tried to contact Naim.
Unfortunately, the files in two firmwares are not the same.

Latest "FLAC" firmware includes these files:
BF.ldr
BFIN.ldr
BOOTL.ldr
SHARC.ldr

Previous firmware has only two files:
BF.ldr
SH.ldr

I'm afraid that if try to install this previous firmware, I will get some halfbreed thing:
some functions will be left from the new firmware, some functions will be from the old one.

Is anyone from Naim reading this forum?

I can not believe that they didn't test this firmware more extensively, with various high-rez file types of higher bit rates, before releasing it to the public.

It even does not do things well that previous firmware did.

____________________________________________________________________
Why has the sticky been taken off this topic. Are NAIM hoping it will disappear off the map.
Sorry to sound so abrasive, but in light of the number of problems encountered by forum members with this firmware upgrade I had hoped they would respond and enlighten us with what's being done if anything!
I won't be upgrading until there's firm assurance that all has been resolved. I've been caught out before with "upgrades". Best wait until the dust has settled.

Graham

.

Posted on: 17 March 2011 by sheffieldgraham

Originally Posted by sheffieldgraham:

Originally Posted by Kuja:

I had the same idea and I downloaded that firmware before I tried to contact Naim.
Unfortunately, the files in two firmwares are not the same.

Latest "FLAC" firmware includes these files:
BF.ldr
BFIN.ldr
BOOTL.ldr
SHARC.ldr

Previous firmware has only two files:
BF.ldr
SH.ldr

I'm afraid that if try to install this previous firmware, I will get some halfbreed thing:
some functions will be left from the new firmware, some functions will be from the old one.

Is anyone from Naim reading this forum?

I can not believe that they didn't test this firmware more extensively, with various high-rez file types of higher bit rates, before releasing it to the public.

It even does not do things well that previous firmware did.

____________________________________________________________________
Why has the sticky been taken off this topic. Are NAIM hoping it will disappear off the map.
Sorry to sound so abrasive, but in light of the number of problems encountered by forum members with this firmware upgrade I had hoped they would respond and enlighten us with what's being done if anything!
I won't be upgrading until there's firm assurance that all has been resolved. I've been caught out before with "upgrades". Best wait until the dust has settled.

Graham
________________________________________________________________________
Posted by Paul Stephenson.

Naim Audio Forums Presents... a Live Chat Event:

Naim's Hjalmar Nilsson DAC code author

CHAT with Hjalmar today

Chat with Hjalmar Nilsson Senior Naim Audio engineer today 4pm-5pm UK time.
Hjalmar is the author of all the s/ware code in the Naim DAC and and has just released the FLAC update, if you any questions relating to this update of the DAC software code, this is the guy to ask.

_______________________________________________________________________________
I'm sure many of us were unable to pose questions in this limited time frame. Wouldn't it be useful to post the transcript of this session. Perhaps we might then be it little wiser and less frustrated.

Graham

Posted on: 17 March 2011 by gav111n

Graham, you're way too cynical!

Click on 'Recent Activity' then look at 'Chat Events' on the left and click 'All Chat Events'.

You will see the previous Chat Events on the right. Enjoy.

Gav

Posted on: 18 March 2011 by pcstockton

Is there anything from anyone official on this?

Or are we just supposed to pretend the update never happened and FLAC is not supported (which is fine with me)?

-p

Posted on: 18 March 2011 by AMA

It seems Hjalmar is either working hard on the code update (

) or enjoying vacation on Bahamas (

).

Posted on: 19 March 2011 by ozzyan

Originally Posted by pcstockton:

Or are we just supposed to pretend the update never happened and FLAC is not supported (which is fine with me)?

Not so fine with me, since now I have problems with hi-res wav files that never occurred before fw update

Someone should really talk to us.

Posted on: 19 March 2011 by Stoik

Originally Posted by AMA:

It seems Hjalmar is either working hard on the code update (

) or enjoying vacation on Bahamas (

).

To be truly honest, I must admit that I laughted out loud on this one. Shame on me.

One of my friend did the update, and have some troubles with the FLAC playback too. And to continue on my honesty line, I don't know if we're expecting too much of what is not a musical server but basicly a DAC. Sorry, I had to speak my mind.

I know that this update created a lot of expectations, and for a good while now (we've heard of it since last autumn, if I'm correct). I feel for you, guys. And I hope you'll get sorted out soon.

Bye.

Posted on: 20 March 2011 by Paul Stephenson

Hi Guys

Sorry have not been following this topic, I am not sure if anyone here has e mailed support but I will

Check on Monday, Hjalmar has been away. I have featured this topic again no dark games at work just housekeeping.Why do some of you always look for the back side of events, we will and do support this release, I will mail the guys today.

Posted on: 20 March 2011 by Kuja

Originally Posted by Paul Stephenson:

I am not sure if anyone here has e mailed support

I did.

We exchanged few emails and in the last one,

I was very surprised when I learned that once a new code is written to the DAC, we can not go back and that a new code needs to be written if we want to install the old firmware back.

This is contrary to what was written in firmware update instructions.

I hope that we will get a new corrected firmware soon.

Posted on: 20 March 2011 by Paul Stephenson

Ok thanks

Posted on: 22 March 2011 by jmdx96

Originally Posted by Paul Stephenson:

I am not sure if anyone here has e mailed support

In fact I did this week-end (I had a look to the forum after I e-mailed them) but didn't received any answer for the moment.

I'm sure your guys are working to solve the problem.

Good luck.

Jean-Marie

Naim DAC FLAC update now available

Posted by: Paul Stephenson on 07 March 2011