HD TRACKS

Joe

when Redbook is seldom mastered to it's potential anyway.

Spot on. of course I were cynical, i'd say if there is way of creating a new market / demand with minimal cost then its going to be exploited. I think higher sample word lengths are useful when the audio has many levels of dynamic range in a passage, each with its own level of dynamic nuance, but that is great for some classical concerts but really how relevant is it for most recorded contemporary music, and how many listening envionments / audio replay systems  are going to work at that level as well.

So yes I believe the vast majority of modern recorded music if mastered properly will find 16bit 44.1kHz ample.

So my (contentious ) summary

1. Higher sample word length - allows for easier mastering and processing in the digital domain without quantisation errors prior to producing the final 16 bit output (Redbook)
2. Higher sample rates can help at various levels:

So in short Redbook 16bit/44.1kHz is often deliberately dumbed down so that is optimised for substandard playback.

With Hidef audio what we are more likely to hear the audio prior to this 'processing'. But that also means 16bit/44.1kHz can sound incredible or hidef like if mastered correctly - or neutrally, but I guess the music industry says why bother when we can charge more for an unprocessed copy 

As a thought - in the days of mainstream vinyl, the early Reggae bands in the UK used to seek out 'specilists' who would get the correct mastering characterisitcs on the vinyl masters - ie optimum modulation to get the bass to come through as required, the default recording lable processes would flatten the modulation and the bass response - I admired that sense of detail and how the artists took the time and effort to byupass the music industry dumbing down. There are some wonderful archive pictures of 1960s style freelance sound engineers looking very 'BBC'  working with the Reggae artists in said engineers front rooms etc with various Heath Robinson apparatus that produced the masters.....

Simon

Joe,

I don't have the MOFI mastered CD, which I might now try and get may hands upon.

I have compared:

LP vs LP Rip (9624) vs CD rip vs DVD rip (9624), of Moving Pictures.

I have always thought that digitally sourced well recorded music can demonstrate fantastic bass.

The advantage I can sometime here with HiRes digital is greater head-room for vocals, in comparison the CD rip can sound somewhat 'sat upon'.

Other than that I would agree that frequently what I am listening to is a different, and perhaps more careful, master of the music.

On a similar front, having ripped my LP of 'High Society' I found the clicks distracting so dumped the files and bought the CD - which is atrocious! Just re-ripping the LP as I type.

M

Yes, I finally managed to defeat that nasty ol' anorexia Joe.

This afternoon I played the rips in question to a couple of the Sussex Naimites who also agreed that the rip of the standard CD sounded quite a bit better than the HD Tracks 24/96 version.

I have noticed this too - sometimes. It appears to be an emerging trait. Better defined bass too - maybe possibly - seems like.

As with everything, the quality and providence of the source files are paramount. The music industry would have learned this by now if they could give a toss.

Of the CDs I like the MOFI best but the Canadian Anthem or WG Atomic original CDs are very close and a nice listen.  The 'Rush Remaster' is an ear-bleeder IMO and best avoided.

The HD Tracks people are limited (confirmed in a reply to me on this subject) by the master supplied.  As in the case of Steely Dan, if this is not as good as the original - there is nothing that the new format will do about that.  I also don't rate the 'Frampton Comes Alive' they offer - I have an original CD that again sounds better to my ears.

I think back catalogue is fraught with this kind of anomaly unless the mastering is a good one or a remaster is being done to improve it (that can happen, but not often enough) - if you like your digital music it makes sense to source the best copy you can and this can often be an old CD for peanuts.  It usually makes more difference than a box upgrade.

Joe 

David, can you tell us more? What are you trying to say here?

Sincerely,

Dave

I think that it depends what you are looking for (as always), to me it sounds much more like live musicians which means 'warts and all'. Listening to Goodbye Yellow Brick Road and Band on the Run I can really hear the individuals playing rather than a glossy soundstage. I think that this reflects the primitive (but wonderful) state of recording technology back in those days. On the newer recordings true greatness can be achieved as in the Diana Krall recordings.

The current poor quality of the masters on CD is not the fault of the music labels or engineers, it is dictated by the mass market listening through white ear buds to heavily compressed downloads. 80% of people under the age of 30 cannot tell the difference between $100 and $1,000 system, where as 80% over the age of 30 can tell the difference. Interesting statistic that and it comes from Jimmy Iovine who is the President of IGA which is the most successful label in the world, owned by Universal and responsible for such disasters as the Black Eyed Peas. Jimmy started off life as a recording engineer and worked on a lot of Bruce Springsteen's early stuff. He knows all about quality and is trying to revive peoples interest in it, not because there is a market in HD tracks but because people will buy CD's again. His reasoning, as we all know, the better the quality the more emotion and hence engagement.

People who work in studios are for the most part obsessive about sound quality and it probably irritates them more than anyone what is done to their work by the time it reaches the consumer.

Hi David,

It's simpler in the case of FCA - the HD sounds like a later mastering judging by some compression.  The original CD sounds less interfered with.  As you say, it depends what you like.

Joe

Aha, I will do some listening......thanks Joe

Update on HDTracks, they now appear to block orders from the UK by reference to the IP address, I couldn't even get as far as a PayPal  payment page. Any recommendations on UK available HD download sites ?

This applies to specific record labels. It is still possible to buy some records.

see also this thread

https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...nt/13393020358277240

Amazon USA will no longer ship some DVDs to the UK. It appears that the studios/labels are becoming more proactive in regional price rigging.

Hi Harry -

Visa-versa.  Had to go to eBay to get the final season of Poirot when Amazon UK (where I got my box set of everything but) for some reason said no.

But it is very selective!   I often shop Amazon UK because your new releases aren't ready for purchase here for at least a couple of months.   Just received season two of Sherlock from over the pond...hoping it is a worthy follow on to season one!

Generally speaking, if its a UK TV show, the UK versions of the box sets are better organized and better packaged, and cost less to buy/ship via Amazon UK than buying through the US site (even though I have a US Prime membership, and 2-day shipping is free!).

Hook

Yes it is selective. As appears to be the case with HDTracks. Funny how the very people who are into music enough to keep buying it and are willing to search and pay premium prices for it are the same people who are killing the industry.

Not sure if these have been mentioned earlier in this thread, if so, apologies.  For hi res classical I recommend eClassical.com, www.theclassicalshop.net.  From both of these I've successfully downloaded several classical 24/96 recordings which are excellent.