Naim's servers and streamers: why no modular approach ?

The UnitiServe is that pure disk player. Connect it to an nDac and off you go. The fact that it sounds better as a sever is another matter.

It is not. The UnitiServe is a HD player, CD player, CD ripper and UPnP server.

I would think that the Naim sound and quality there of comes from the DAC side of things, be it in a streamer a CD player or whatever. The front end on its own, I'm guessing, could come almost from any manufacturer.

Maybe those who have say an nDAC could say if it sounds the same supplied from various sources.

 Graeme

Hmm, I see what you mean. But surely if they were to build what you suggest, the range would be even more confusing. To me, an NDX with a server of some description seems very simple. That server could be Naim if you want, and the fact that the server is also a ripper makes matters simpler still.

It does not. I have tested the nDAC with 1) the electrical SPDIF output of my fit-PC3, 2) the electrical SPDIF output of a M2Tech hiFace Two, 3) the electrical and optical SPDIF outputs of a M2Tech hiFace Evo. Even on my modest system and to my bad eard the differences were significant.

You're sounding a bit stroppy if I may say so: 'it does not', 'it is not'. Are you after a decent debate or is your intention to slap everyone down? 

I fully share the thoughts of the OP. I am currently searching for options to upgrade my UnitiLite. I have decided I prefer the "streamer" path but none of the (for me at least ...) accessible streamers (i.e. up to and including NDX) produce the same sound quality as the NDAC. I dont want to buy a UnitiServe as i will only be using it as a transport, not for ripping. A pure streamer (withoug internal DAC) into the NDAC is what I would really like to be available. Bare NDX does not compare and once you start adding PSUs to the NDX the price takes off...

Each of the sources you have listed is supplying a real-time feed to the DAC (in those cases via S/PDIF).  This class of digital feed is almost always compromised by jitter (as well as RFI) so yes, the sound will vary.

Integrating the IP streamer and DAC into one box allows buffering the incoming data, and allows it to be synchronously clocked out of the buffer and into the DAC, minimising jitter.  A better result is usually obtained by this route, unless the DAC is in a class (and price) well above that of the streamer.

I have also encountered someone who preferred the sound of the system when no precautions were taken against RFI.  They preferred the brighter treble that resulted from the increased HF distortion; the loss of resolution was much less important to them (brighter speakers would probably have been a better option).

  Things here are often not quite as they seem.

Hello all,

Great posts and debate. 

I am one of the guilty party using a Mac Mini with all my music on and Asset, which is solid as a rock....and just works. Not sure adding Unitiserve will bring much to the party. I would be interested in thoughts on this. 

The point about the UnityServ is that it's a music streamer, not just a computer or a computer peripheral.  It's a stand-alone solution for that role.

What you are suggesting would be a NAS drive with an S/PDIF output.  You'd still need to set up a computer to get it to work, as you'd have no way to get the data on the in the first place.

The cost of the UnityServe is in the development of an audiophile quality computer system using low noise power supplies.  The cost of the CD drive is peanuts in comparison (probably about $40), saving that cost but incurring the necessity of a separate computer to load the data makes no sense at all.

The solution for which you are asking IS a UnityServe + a DAC.

I believe that in changing the Mac for a UnityServe the main gains would be less RFI, and quite possibly less jitter on the S/PDIF output.

I don't think that adding a UnityServe would achieve much.

Hi Huge,

The Mac does not directly connect. It connects to a switch and so does my NDS. No S/PDIF being used.

Alas, I also don't think US would add much...not ruling out the Golden rule...demo!

Hugo's there? Now that's a whole different debate!!!

Sorry HH, I did not mean to be stroppy. If it sounded so I do apologize. I also would like to stress that I am not in any way criticizing the design or the functionalities of a UnitiServe, of a NDX or of a HDX.

These are, in much the same way as the SuperUniti, the Uniti 2 and many other Naim products are, excellent devices. And I can very well imagine that there are users for which these devices are a perfect fit, although not for me.

But I think most Naim users would find it a bit strange or even irritating if Naim would not be producing the SuperNaits, the NACs, the NAPs etc. and only offer the Uniti range. Although, of course, these would still be great devices.

In much the same way as I believe that there are both reasons and a market for dac-free amplifiers (integrated and pre + power), cd player, power supplies etc. to exists, so I do believe that there are good reasons and a market for HD players which are not also ripping stations, CD players and more. Any I believe that it is a mistake for a company with such a wide range of products as Naim to offer a pure dac but no pure streamer or player to complement.

I am sure that the current Naim portfolio and what I consider to be weaknesses on the server / streamer / player side can be explained by historical reasons. I also can understand that, in a time in which technologies are developing quite fast, a company decides to pack a lot of functionalities into  certain devices (and possibly clean up later as technologies consolidate).

But I think that, in the long run, Naim could profit from a transparent roadmap policy and from a clear separation of concerns in the source department. The fact that so many users are "forced" into PC or Mac Mini based solutions is, in my view, a symptom that, in this department something is missing.  

If you're using the Mac as a UPnP server, the only gain from a UnityServe would be less RFI injected onto the mains ( and only if you remove the Mac completely).

How are you delaing with the RFI that the Mac injects into the mains supply?

Hi Huge, not sure if you were replying to my comment but from a content point of view it pefrectly addresses my concerns  and I am really glad that I see a logical explanation of why the cost of a US might be worth it compared to a 40 XXX (use your preferred currency, I have as we spead a 35EUR one by me ripping CDs to my NAS) CD drive...

The more i think about what you are saying the more sense it makes. However you would have thought when Naim were making the NDS that it would have been something they tried out, to separate the streamer from the DAC into two boxes. Then again maybe they didn't. Or maybe this is the anticipated MOAD thats been spoken about so much, that will be released with an NDS streamer only. Who knows

I'm not. It's the next thing to sort out and isolate. Ironic we spend so much on upgrades that sometimes "post" upgrade not much in the way of funds to sort out the cheaper upgrades!!!

Huge, you are right in a certain sense. If the UnitiServe has been optimized for serving a usb or SPDIF dac, if it had a wireless port (yes, I can probably plug a USB wireless stick in one of the ports of the Serve), if it would allow me to rsync my music library via ssh and if I could selectively switch off all the services I am not interested in, it would be on my shelf now. Too many ifs, however.  

If you want those options then what you really want is a computer that's optimised for ease of use (rather than a dedicated music server)...

Can I recommend a Mac-Mini?

Right. But even so not everyone is willing to go the streaming way. And dedicated Mac Minis or PCs can be, together with a SPDIF converter, a very good source for Naim's DAC. With the advent of the Hugo, setting up such a source has become even easier and, according to what I have read in another thread, the sound quality even better . A dedicated Mac Mini or PC together with a modern USB dac constitute a simple, effective, straightforward solution for all those who do not want (for whatever reasons) to run a NAS or to lay ethernet cables or play around with network bridges and the like. So I think it's due time not only for a new Naim dac but also for an open OS, pure Naim HD player.

Well, I'd like to believe this theory, but , for me, it falls down, asthe NDX for example has a digital out and is marketed by Naim as upgrade able by a DAC. Secondly the Ethernet card generates it own noise inside the same box (which may be overcome by external PSUs).

in response to the OP, a product like the Aurilac Aries would not go a miss and would Naim hunters and existing Naimees more options :-)

Isolating the Mac Mini or any device (including the Unitiserve's SMPSU) is by using a linear PSU or at least a separate mains circuit.

With respect to RFI from wifi cards or IR sensors, in the case of the Mac Mini it is possible to turn if off from simple system configuration (I.e. Within MAC OS itself).  I have no experience with the Unitiserve , however, I am sure it would be possible. The Mac Mini's low optical SPDIF jitter is well documented of this forum.

You haven't said why you think the argument falls down:

Your statement

"as the NDX for example has a digital out and is marketed by Naim as upgrade able by a DAC."

My Statement

"... A better result is usually obtained by this route, unless the DAC is in a class (and price) well above that of the streamer."

Use of a DAC of a higher class is an upgrade!

"Secondly the Ethernet card generates it own noise inside the same box (which may be overcome by external PSUs)."

100Base TX Ethernet adapters are low power and can be shielded and optically isolated.  The interference can affect analogue circuitry, it can also put jitter on an S/PDIF signal.  This makes no difference 1 box or 2.

Sure, but I already have a nice small black box sitting near the DAC:

As I said, I am very happy with my system (the fit-PC3 aluminium case is exactly of the same black tone as all Naim devices and the green logo is almost the same green as Naim's) but I would have preferred to buy a Naim player.