Sound quality problems with BBC 6 Music using iRadio

Keith, the streams use TCP (or did when I looked previously) therefore packet drops, which are completely normal for TCP over a WAN/Internet, are typically used to regulate throughput by design or through unplanned congestion. It should be transparent unless there is extreme congestion at any of these points, the server, routed network path, your LAN / NDS.

Therefore.. 

1) does it happen regularly at a certain time. Is this the same for other web radio stream players at your address.

2) when it does happen use a different ISP (friend or 3G/4G dongle) to see if streams are still interrupted.

the above two actions in my opinion should start to identify whether it's your LAN/DSL access, your NDS, your ISP or the BBC that is experiencing the congestion.

Simon 

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the suggestions.

It seems to vary from one minute to the next but is always there. It doesn't do it using Radio Player or Tunein via iPad - Apple TV - NDS.

I don't have a dongle, so it's difficult to test other IPSs. 

it's the fact that other stations are not affected which I find so strange.

Keith

Hi, I'm not using a naim streamer but I have the same issue when receiving the 'WMA' direct stream. Using the iPlayer AAC stream sorts it. Luckily I can just save this in the presets like any otfab 'favourite' station the CA NP30 streamer.

The clicking reminded me of years ago I had a CA CD 4 and on some discs it made the same clicking sound. Very annoying.

Incidentally I noticed this with 6 music a few months ago, it worked fine for a year before this fault appeared.......odd

It's obviously a BBC conspiracy to force us to share the love for digital radio! 

Or the BBC realising the the Licence Fee cannot cover the replacement of the present VHF network as it finally reaches obsolescence.

ATB from George

Keith, interesting, well it does sound a Naim issue then if you are using the exact same addresses for the other players that have no issue, and I have had slightly similar experiences, which have resulted in me eventually retiring my Naim web radio capability. I use VHF FM (Naim), Qobuz (Apple/Naim), occasional web radio streams (non Naim).

Interesting comment from George, I still invest in VHF FM as it's digital replacement I feel is still a long way off.. The licence fee will unlikely be able to fund the development of an equivalent multicast based network service, given the cut backs I heard for the radio budget.

Simon

To George's point about Optimod, I agree if set aggressively it can sound poor. I read that the BBC are not as aggressive as some with its use. Also I read that a few years ago Optimod was set on Radio 3 only during 'drive time' presumably for people listening in their cars, and this may still be the case.

in 'digital' media the BBC use their  'Coyopa' compression / switching system and then for online adjust the levels for the Frauenhoffer AAC processors. Again it appears minimum level compression is applied to BBC Radio 3, I couldn't determine if this varies throughout the day as for the broadcast radio.. 

Simon

Well I'm listening to 6 Music at the moment on my UQ2 and there seems to be the same clicking you are experiencing.

It does seem to come and go, but on the last song they played it was at the same interval throughout (like a record with a scratch).

I've no reason to believe I have any network problems, and the buffer hasn't dipped below 90%.

Nick

Hi Nick,

Yes, it sounds like the same thing. It renders music unlistenable. Sometimes it's constant, at others it's intermittent.

I may query it with Naim again, but why the hell does it only affect 6 Music? There can be little doubt that the Beeb deliberately broadcasts at low bit rates to make their beloved DAB sound good, but I'm not sure I blame them for this.

It's not a real hardship using using Radio Player or Tunein. Their apps leave nStream in the dust, but it's nice to have the higher resolution stations on the streamer (Radio Paradise etc.).

Keith

Radio 6 is working fine on iRadio through my SuperUniti - it's playing now.

So am I and it sounds like the girl singing has hiccups twice a second :-/

Having posted last night, after about 20 minutes of perfect playing, the buffer started emptying, so I gave up. I don't understand why some stations have buffering issues and others don't. Radio 4 Hidef will play for hours happily, as will Linn Jazz.

I posted the same question in June. 

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...bbc-radio-6-on-nd5xs

The problems I have sound remarkably similar to yours, again only with BBC Radio 6. 

Hi Napster,

So I'm not going mad and I'm not alone!

I first noticed it on Sunday mornings too (Cerys Matthews' show), but it does it all the time, to a greater or lesser extent. Popping may be a better description. It's like when you tap your throat while singing.

Have tried other sources (Tunein or Radio Player)?

I suggest we both call Naim on Monday. Anyone else out there affected?

Keith 

Dear Simon,

On VHF, historically speaking, there has always been manual operation of levels including occasional use during music, sometimes successful in being virtually undetectable, and sometime quite obvious. 

The problem with Optmod is that is is usually very obvious when it cuts in. Usually just during a forte entry rather than just before, which is much less harmful of course.

I am not surprised to read that there is a subtle compression even on internet radio such a BBC Radio Three in HiDef. In reality a very small amount of compression can be a good thing on live concerts, where the dynamic can be uncomfortably wide for the domestic setting.

What I dislike [on music broadcasts] is the obvious sort like Optimod!

ATB from George

And  overly compressed web radio.. I totally agree with you..luckily all these processors are configurable to the extent they adjust the sound. I used to find ClassicFM quite objectionable. 

Simon

Classic FM, apart from only playing bits is completely objectionable for me, with its plummy bass and sophisticated but massive compression. I'd rather listen to the plummy Jenny Murray on Radio Four talking stuff I don't understand about women's issues!

I do like the R3 Hires stream. Not perfect, but for me perfectly acceptable. I'd be happy if they would do CD standard as a stream. Imagine that!

But live relays are the stuff of pleasure, so many times. I have tapes from the 1980s on the better than today VHF that are simply more natural and clear than any commercially issued recording of the same music. Just done on a CR [II] setting without any dolby, and transferred now to iTunes at CD standard. 

Only kept for the music and performance, because also a real performance has something no edited version can ever give in representing great musicians at work on great music.

Dear Simon, you are kind.

ATB from George

Apologies for the delay in replying. I put Cerys on this morning and the problem is still there. I recorded a bit to highlight the issue that I am hearing:

https://soundcloud.com/jimfrost/140810-0072wav

Not the greatest recording but it's using an Olympus LS-14 a metre or so in front of the speakers: BBCR6 iRadio ND5XS. WMA 128kb/s, Buffer 100%, 44.1kHz. Strangely the issue seems to come and go and is more prevalent with acoustic/quieter tracks such as this one from Jeff Buckley.

Yep, that's exactly the same as mine, and it's doing it now?

Keith

The clip was from this morning. I've just put BBCR6 back on (Guy Garvey) and it's doing the same. Flicked over to BBCR2 and no problems.

Hey all. I'm a newbie here, but I've been having exactly the same issue for quite a while now. I'm not posh enough to have a Naim system, but it's been occurring on both my Onkyo systems, and now on Sonos too. I've tried it on two different broadband lines (both off the same exchange though), and it happens on them both. No other stations seem to be affected.

I've just rung up the BBC Audience Services people on 03700 100 123 and they say they've not had any other reports but will look into it. It might be useful for a few more of you to report it so they take it a bit more seriously. If they get back to me I'll point them to this thread.

I really do hope they're not using TCP for the stream, that would be crazy!

Hi Kevin

welcome to the forum !!

just to make sure I googled the word  'posh'...I have a Naim...

On my "posh" NDX & non-posh Roberts R6 is not good

All the other BBC's are OK

Posh is a throwback to old days of "Empire" travelling to India & far east 

The first class travellers liked to be in a cool cabin on the north side of the ship when crossing the Indian Ocean. 

The travel booking would read POSH  (Port side Out - Starboard side Home)

Posh - actually comes from the term Port Out Starboard Home. The wealthier passengers on the P&O (Peninsula and Orient)  ships that travelled between the UK and India in the days of the Raj coined the word. You paid more to have a cooler cabin facing north.

Simon

EDIT - I see Mike has made the same post

PS One the sound quality it sounds like there are troubles with the streamer encoders at the Beeb

Dare I say R6 has a sound quality issue no matter what Auntie Beeb's encoder problems.