Older Drivers

No doctor routinely involved at 70. You merely have to re-apply for your licence and state if you have any medical problems. If 'yes' then the DVLA may request more information about those problems, or indeed request a medical assessment. 

Personally I don't think the current driving test would be appropriate to 're-licence' drivers but I do think some form of test/assessment should be mandatory after perhaps 80 years. I know that is a very arbitrary cutoff. At the very least a vision test and memory assessment.

In my experience very old drivers rarely give up their licence unless forced. In my rural area losing a driving licence is a major problem for continued independence. Taxis are expensive away from the town centre and many resent the loss of freedom. I've probably fallen out with patients more over advising them to stop driving then about any other single thing. I'm unable to refer drivers to the DVLA unless in very exceptional circumstances-it is the driver's responsibility to report a medical issue.

Bruce

I always believed the over 60s should attend a refresher every 5 years to keep a valid license, and it is more appropriate these days to have a maximum 10 year licence span for drivers under the age of 60 with the need to reapply for the next 10 years by attending a state authorised Refresher Driving School, for the best part of a day, to access any medical concerns [which may include compulsory drug testing] and to have classroom assessment for learning techniques of good road craft, and practical driving skills on a purpose made roadway. The enthuses not to disqualify drivers but to respectfully encourage them to drive safely, and to provide them up to date information of changing laws, new designs of roadway signs, and modernized roadway engineering.

However, the authority would be there to weed out the hopeless cases, or refer them to retest at a later date.

The expense of running such a road craft school would easily pay for itself by the reduction in costs of injuries, deaths, and damage caused in RTAs.

Debs

"I have never been involved in an accident......"

Seen hundreds in my rear view mirror though.

Perfect...

I was 'caught' by a camera a couple of years back, doing 32 in a 30 zone and keeping to speed limit in 30 areas is actually something I strongly believe in, however we all make mistakes. As it was slightly above limit only, I opted for the speeding course instead of points, not a driver test as such but a good reminder of the impact of being stupid, careless or hopeless behind the wheel, whatever the age...It occurred to me then that a regular visit to something similar for everyone might not be a bad idea

Once over 70 i think some sort of check up on a drivers ability would not be a bad thing. My old man stopped at 80 and TBH his driving was bloody awful. Worse than that something i will never forget was an old dear touching 90 who lived a few doors from him. We went out in her little Peugot once and as we pulled out onto the main road she said to us  `if you think i`m going to hit something do warn me`  those were her words i kid you not.

Mista h

I think an annual physical should start at say 55, certainly not later than 60 years old. This full physical examination should be paid for and not on the NHS.

And if any incident or offence is involved then anyone, of what ever age should have to retake the full test at full price. Failure would mean the revoking of the full licence until such time as the test is passed again. Obviously Provisional licences should run for a maximum of twelve months before another twelve months is applied for [etc]. Simple as that.

ATB from George

Hmmm...Not sure about taking the test as a measure. Most people can pass a test, doesn't mean they can actually drive on the roads effectively..!

Dear Jamie,

I don't think the UK test is nearly stringent enough. And there should be a part that examines IQ and another part that is a psychological test.

Clearly there are people who can manage the physical side of driving who are never the less completely unsuitable from the lack of analytical abilities [ability effectively to analyse risk to themselves and to others] and intelligence, or even from the psychological point of view.

ATB from George

I find that a ridiculously draconian suggestion and I see no evidence it would make any difference to  anything.

I know you have had a couple of bad experiences on your bike so can see why you might feel as you do.

To keep my flying licence valid - having well and truley passed the age of 60 , I have to have a medical every 6 months (its much less frequent when you are younger). In addition I have to pass a flying test every year. The required flying standards and medical standards are the same whether you are 17 or 70.

Seems reasonable to me that car drivers should be reqired to undergo  regular re-testing and medical examinations, with the frequency increasing with age.

Cost should be bourne by the driver, but don't expect it to be cheap !

Do you have both your arms?

Oh. I thought this might be a thread about SBLs. 

A driver's ability is only age related when taking medical conditions into consideration.  Notification to the DVLA of any condition that might impair your driving ability applies to younger people as well. I used to suffer from sleep apnoea and had to inform the DVLA when it was diagnosed. Luckily I responded very quickly to treatment and kept my licence. As long as an old person passes a medical they don't need retesting any more than anybody else. If retesting is introduced then it should be for everyone after a stipulated period. Most of the idiot drivers you see on the road today are usually under 60.

yes ! I was surprised by that news as well !

If one per cent of drivers are congenitally dangerous to pedestrians and cyclists - and my measure reduced driver numbers by ten per cent - then the risk would be ten per cent [plus] less for pedestrians and cyclists.

Only if you feel the current risk to pedestrians and cyclists is acceptable would you think that my idea was anything but plain common  sense, and not Draconian at all.

ATB from George

Me too, especially as I was told I couldn't be a pilot because I wear glasses.

I also propose that any driver, or cyclist who is convicted of a vehicular offence should in addition to any current fine, or other punishment, have the vehicle being used, crushed.

That would be a a very salutary reminder to respect other road users, be he or she a cyclist, motorist or commercial vehicle driver.

It would also make employers much more careful whom they employed to drive valuable commercial vehicles ...

ATB from George

PS: I will observe that however strict my rules may be, no law abiding road user need fear them when Justice follows due process! The safe driver is not threatened by such notions.

Chaps

I have to be honest, I have gone downhill a bit over the last couple of years.

My hearing is not as sharp as it was.

I cannot turn my head as far as I used to be able to, so seeing other vehicles approaching from a sharp angle is more difficult to achieve.

My brain is not as sharp as it used to be. My reactions are almost certainly slower which is not good.

On the credit side.

I have more patience and am less competitive than when I was younger, so the urge to overtake is now non existent.

I drive much more defensively

I am less risk orientated.

I always obey the rules and NEVER speed..

I suppose the bad points of aging are cancelled out by the good points, but I still find it a bit worrying that once you have passed your test, you seem to have a licence for life.

Regards

Mick

Yes. I do.

And your ideas are those of a fruitcake.

I think most folk acknowledge when they're becoming unfit to drive and make plans accordingly. I've known a few elderly people round this neck of the woods who've decided to give up their cars, and given we're a rural community with no viable public transport it's been especially hard for them.

My next door neighbour had a minor scrape when driving a couple of years ago and almost immediately disposed of his car for good. It helps if there's someone nearby who can help them with transport if needs be.

People are so impatient these days and often elderly drivers feel bullied and intimidated by aggressive drivers who aren't prepared to wait behind them if they're gently pottering along.

Flybe commented that they are an equal opportunities employer...Now, I'm all for equal opportunities for folks by and large, however, if a one armed chap stepped out of the cockpit and introduced himself as my commercial pilot, I think I might wait for the next one instead!

The reported incident kinda confirms my fears and concerns would not be ungrounded...

If you could see some of the things amputees can achieve, and the latest technology around prosthetics, you mightn't be so concerned James.

As an aside, one of my colleagues had to accompany one of his patients during his first solo flight of a light aircraft in case something went wrong with his two artificial arms (the gentleman in question being a double, above-elbow amputee). Quite what my colleague was supposed to do in the event, given he was sat in the back, we never managed to establish!

Not my experience. A significant proportion of older drivers cling onto their driving licences despite  obvious problems that they tend to deny. They often say 'well I just drive locally' but driving is driving, and local roads are more dangerous than motorways. I understand why they do this but I think the system should re-assess older drivers in some way. I also think one way would be for the Police or indeed an insurance company to be able to 'refer' drivers to an assessment centre after a minor incident or if a reasonable concern is raised or observed.

As for 'pottering along' I accept the point but ultimately drivers do have a responsibility to maintain reasonable progress or they do themselves become a hazard.

Note HGV/PSV licences have mandatory health checks that get more frequent with age.

DVLA medical assessments are however about identifying risks rather than an actual assessment of driving ability and things like co-ordination, concentration etc are harder to judge in an office compared to in a car. I think a driving skills assessment should be included in an older drivers test. I doubt it needs to be a complex procedure but a safety net that can pick out the small number that otherwise only get dealt with when something goes wrong.

Bruce

So, all 'armless after all then?

I wouldn't disagree that some form of assessment of driving ability would be a good idea, but then, given statistics on which groups of drivers cause most accidents, maybe this should be expanded to include young drivers after a couple of years' experience and middle-aged company car drivers! 

Like Jamie, I too got caught being a little flighty in a 30 zone and opted to do the 3-hour course. It was excellent, and I was genuinely glad I did it. One point they made was how recommended driving techniques have changed over time due to changes in vehicle technology. For example, anyone learning to drive more than ~25 years ago would have been taught to change down through the gears as you prepared to stop. No-one is taught that way any more. Why? Brakes used to be very unreliable on cars so the gearbox was used to help out. Modern brakes are much better, so no need now.

With this in mind, it's all the more surprising that I will be able to continue driving for (potentially) another 60 years when I passed my test over 20 years ago.

On a related issue, my father-in-law has partially recovered from what was initially diagnosed as motor neurone disease (since 'downgraded', thankfully, to Guillain-Barre syndrome) and hit his 70th birthday at a similar time. His application for an extension to his driving licence seemingly went through on the nod. This surprised me, to say the least, given the medical issues he's had in the last few years. In his case, his driving is fine, but I can't help wonder who might be slipping through the net. When you also consider that he passed his driving test in the early 1960s, he's now driving cars which are radically different on roads which are unrecognisable from then. Surely some sort of re-test - even if it's just a 45-minute drive on varied roads with an assessor or some sort - isn't a completely ridiculous idea?

Mark