Naim-Focal-Mojo Beatles Mono playback at Abbey Road

Posted by: Kevin-W on 05 September 2014

OK, so here’s my impressions, for what they’re worth, of the Beatles mono playback at Abbey Road Studio 2 last night (4th September).

 

The equipment was as follows – Vertere turntable, Naim Statement amp and (I think) Focal Grande Utopia speakers. The cart was Ortofon’s new Beatles Mono 2M SE. I don’t now what the arm was (I presume it was a Vertere – maybe their Reference), nor the cables, or the phono stage - perhaps someone from Naim can help out.

 

Physically, a very imposing set-up, if not exactly pretty (the TT and speakers, while finished to an extremely high standard, were rather ugly to my eyes; the Statement was smaller than I expected to be – perhaps it was the size of the room – and was much better looking tin the flesh).

 

And what of the sound? Well, I’ve not heard any of these components before, so I have no idea what was contributing what, and I am sure the room played its part as well; but the sound was disappointing. And I don’t think the records (of which more shortly) were to blame.

 

What was good?  From where I was sitting (about 10 yards back, slightly to the right of centre), the sense of scale was phenomenal, the midrange was awesome, and of course the detail and separation was incredible. I don’t think I’ve heard so much detail extracted from a record before.

 

Sound effects (such as the cock crowing at the beginning of “SPLHC Reprise” or the shortwave radio on “I Am The Walrus" were rendered with jaw-dropping realism and clarity. My old mucker Chris, who came along with me for the evening, has never been convinced by mono; but he – and I think many others in the 150-srong audience – was blown away by the scale, spaciousness and hyper-realistic super-wide soundstage of these mono records. I think anyone who’s ordered either the box set or a selection of individual titles won’t be disappointed. Both the TT and the vinyl were also completely silent – no hum, rumble or pops to be heard at all, even at high volumes. 

 

And the bad?

 

The bass for a start. On “Revolution” it was non-existent, on many other tracks it was bloated, boomy and completely dominated everything else. I love a bit of bass, but really, this was daft. I suspect the speakers were to blame, and possibly the room too. More intimate pieces like “Norwegian Wood”, while impressive in the rendering of the acoustic guitars, was ruined for me because it was completely swamped by flabby, boomy bass.

 

The treble was generally hard and steely, or else slightly muffled. This was especially noticeable on the “White Album” tracks, and was, for a £300,000 system, very disappointing.

 

The thing I like most in music is a bit of “boogie factor” and although this set-up had a bit, it didn’t have enough. Occasionally it was a bit “draggy”, a bit slow and lacking in bite and attack. I’m wondering if the TT was to blame for this. Having lived with an LP12 for some 27 years (and having heard fruitboxes in many other systems, most of them better than mine), I know what this venerable platter-spinner brings to the party, and that’s fun, bounce and a real sense of cohesion and musicality. OK, it may be “coloured” and not “neutral”, but it makes you engage with the music.

 

The Vertere, while more analytical and clearly capable of extracting astonishing amounts of information from the groove, fell way short of the Linn in its musicality and the fun factor. For me, and despite its faults, the LP12 remains by far the best source I have ever heard.

 

Next, I’ll focus on the music played, the mono box and other aspects of the evening.

Posted on: 08 September 2014 by Kevin-W
Originally Posted by The Strat (Fender):


Well PB I understand the pressings are excellent and so they should be.  But I still return to the point why on earth go back to Mono?

 

Are we seriously saying that there would be a sonic advantage to listening to any album in Mono? I sit and listen to Pirates by Ricki Lee and on that opening track we Belong Together I get that awesome moment when Steve Gadds drum role at 3 mins moves across the soundstage.  In Mono it just wouldn't do that.

 

OK the early Beatles albums were engineered in Mono I grant so it could be argued that that's how they should be heard but there was a point when they would have been originally engineered in Stereo - Revolver onwards? No doubt they sound superb just as they do in Stereo.

 

Apologies for sounding like a - urm stuck gramaphone record.

 

 

Strat, the idea is not to "go back to mono", but to present the recordings as their creators originally intended them to be heard. The Beatles and Martin had no real interest in stereo, regarding it as a gimmick or purely for classical buffs, until about 1968. ALL the albums apart from from "Let It Be" and "Abbey Road" were recorded for mono; most of the singles too.

 

"Pirates" was made a decade or more after the Fabs' last work; stereo had become dominant, and technology had moved on, so the comparison is ludicrous and irrelevant. But I bet if Jones, Titelman and Waronker had been recording in 1965, they'd have recorded primarily in mono.

 

The mono versions of all the Fabs' albums are, without exception, more coherent, have more depth, musicality, vim and power than their stereo counterparts. Panning, like the Gadd roll you describe, was and still is, something of a gimmick and not as important for me at least as boogie factor, power/intimacy an musicality.I'm not sure if there's a "sonic advantage", as you call it, to listening to these recordings in mono, but there sure as hell is a musical one.

 

And it's not just the Beatles - the mono versions of Pink Floyd's, and The Doors', 1967 debut albums are so superior to their stereo counterparts it's unreal. Go have a listen.

Posted on: 08 September 2014 by The Strat (Fender)
Originally Posted by Kevin-W:

 

 

Strat, the idea is not to "go back to mono", but to present the recordings as their creators originally intended them to be heard. The Beatles and Martin had no real interest in stereo, regarding it as a gimmick or purely for classical buffs, until about 1968. ALL the albums apart from from "Let It Be" and "Abbey Road" were recorded for mono; most of the singles too.

 

"Pirates" was made a decade or more after the Fabs' last work; stereo had become dominant, and technology had moved on, so the comparison is ludicrous and irrelevant. But I bet if Jones, Titelman and Waronker had been recording in 1965, they'd have recorded primarily in mono.

 

The mono versions of all the Fabs' albums are, without exception, more coherent, have more depth, musicality, vim and power than their stereo counterparts. Panning, like the Gadd roll you describe, was and still is, something of a gimmick and not as important for me at least as boogie factor, power/intimacy an musicality.I'm not sure if there's a "sonic advantage", as you call it, to listening to these recordings in mono, but there sure as hell is a musical one.

 

And it's not just the Beatles - the mono versions of Pink Floyd's, and The Doors', 1967 debut albums are so superior to their stereo counterparts it's unreal. Go have a listen.

 

Yeah I understand that there is an attraction to hearing this stuff as it was originally recorded.   But far from seeing the "Gadd Role" as a gimmik I see it as really understanding the depth and breadth of the music.  I'll try it with the Mono button in though!   

Posted on: 08 September 2014 by Kevin-W
Originally Posted by The Strat (Fender):

 

Yeah I understand that there is an attraction to hearing this stuff as it was originally recorded.   But far from seeing the "Gadd Role" as a gimmik I see it as really understanding the depth and breadth of the music.  I'll try it with the Mono button in though!   

There's no point! It was recorded in stereo.

Posted on: 08 September 2014 by Polarbear
Originally Posted by The Strat (Fender):
Originally Posted by Polarbear:

And is there something special about these mono recordings?  

 

Are they worth the asking price?


Well PB I understand the pressings are excellent and so they should be.  But I still return to the point why on earth go back to Mono?

 

Are we seriously saying that there would be a sonic advantage to listening to any album in Mono? I sit and listen to Pirates by Ricki Lee and on that opening track we Belong Together I get that awesome moment when Steve Gadds drum role at 3 mins moves across the soundstage.  In Mono it just wouldn't do that.

 

OK the early Beatles albums were engineered in Mono I grant so it could be argued that that's how they should be heard but there was a point when they would have been originally engineered in Stereo - Revolver onwards? No doubt they sound superb just as they do in Stereo.

 

Apologies for sounding like a - urm stuck gramaphone record.

 

 

 

Because they were recorded in mono Lindsay and designed to be listened to in mono. There will be a simplicity to it all and there will be something romantic in hearing them in their unprocessed mono presentation.

 

I recall many many years ago sitting with Dave Spiers, now of Focal, at the Manchester hi-fi show, there were just the two of us chatting in the room and he suddenly says, have a listen to this. He gets out a mono lp and plays in on an inexpensive system, a very simple TT, valve amp and quads. The sound was superb, simple, clean and very enjoyable. after a couple of minutes he turns to me and asks just how far we have come in the last 50 years, the answer is not far!

 

Regards

 

PB

Posted on: 08 September 2014 by The Strat (Fender)
Originally Posted by Polarbear:

 

Because they were recorded in mono Lindsay and designed to be listened to in mono. There will be a simplicity to it all and there will be something romantic in hearing them in their unprocessed mono presentation.

 

I recall many many years ago sitting with Dave Spiers, now of Focal, at the Manchester hi-fi show, there were just the two of us chatting in the room and he suddenly says, have a listen to this. He gets out a mono lp and plays in on an inexpensive system, a very simple TT, valve amp and quads. The sound was superb, simple, clean and very enjoyable. after a couple of minutes he turns to me and asks just how far we have come in the last 50 years, the answer is not far!

 

Regards

 

PB

 

 

That's exactly what it is - nostalgia in effect

Posted on: 09 September 2014 by The Strat (Fender)

OK - I'm not the greatest Beatles afficianado to justify buying the whole set but I'm intrigued enough to buy Sgt Pepper as I don't have a vinyl copy.  It will complement nicely my CD verion. Here goes!!!!

Posted on: 09 September 2014 by Kevin-W
Originally Posted by The Strat (Fender):

OK - I'm not the greatest Beatles afficianado to justify buying the whole set but I'm intrigued enough to buy Sgt Pepper as I don't have a vinyl copy.  It will complement nicely my CD verion. Here goes!!!!

Go on - you won't regret it!

Posted on: 12 September 2014 by Chris Kelly
Touraj lent it for the event. Derek Jenkins set up the arm and cartridge.Originally Posted by Polarbear:

Who brought the Vertere along?

 

Posted on: 12 September 2014 by Chris Kelly
Kuma
Derek Jenkins knows his way around a turntable and was entrusted with the task (at short notice) by Touraj. Badly set up it will not have been!
Originally Posted by kuma:

To this day, I have never heard a successful demo using a big Focal Utopia at the back end no matter what was driving. ( bloomy bass with tweeters that are out of place )

 

That said, possible that turntable was not set up correctly. I have heard many demos at shows that the poorly set up turntable making poor sound as described here. ( plodding bass and hard and steely highs: a wrong VTA maybe? )

No way that Touraj designs such a poor sounding turntable so it's probably more of a set up issue than the table itself.

 

Ortofon isn't exactly a speed champ, but should not sound that badly.

 

In any case, a mega bux public demo is like an epic film. It's the easiest to make the worst of. 

 

Posted on: 12 September 2014 by Polarbear

I am sure it wasn't badly set up TT at fault, my guess would be the choice of cartridge used, I have never heard a dynamic Ortofon, I wonder why Mr T didn't use his trusty Shiraz on the Vertere but I guess someone wanted a mono cartridge on it.

Posted on: 12 September 2014 by Lontano

Look no further than the speakers IMHO. I heard the NDS into Statement into the big Focals recently and it left me completely underwhelmed. I thought they had the big B&Ws at Abbey Road - those I would like to hear on a Statement.....

Posted on: 12 September 2014 by Quad 33
Originally Posted by Lontano:

Look no further than the speakers IMHO. I heard the NDS into Statement into the big Focals recently and it left me completely underwhelmed. I thought they had the big B&Ws at Abbey Road - those I would like to hear on a Statement.....

I still don't understand why this event was not held in Bushey 

Posted on: 12 September 2014 by Steve J

I'd be happy to accommodate the Statement anytime Graham.

Posted on: 12 September 2014 by FangfossFlyer

...and me!

 

Steve, are you up late/early or in a different time zone? I am in Bangalore airport looking forward to getting home and also to playing those Beatles MONO LPs.

Posted on: 13 September 2014 by Steve J

In Spain Richard. Home to the box set tomorrow. 

Posted on: 14 September 2014 by FangfossFlyer

A picture from Focal of the Abbey Road event:

 

 

Interesting that they are playing through a pair of speakers (as per a Stereo configuration) rather than one for true MONO.

 

Richard

Posted on: 14 September 2014 by Steve J

Richard,

 

Mono records also sound good through two speakers.

 

Steve

Posted on: 14 September 2014 by FangfossFlyer

 

Steve,

 

Next you will be telling me that stereo records can be payed on a mono reproducer provided either a compatible or stereo cartridge wired for mono is fitted and that recent equipment may already be fitted with a suitable cartridge!
 
 
 
Richard
Posted on: 14 September 2014 by George J
Originally Posted by FangfossFlyer:

 

Steve,

 

Next you will be telling me that "Stereo records can be payed on a mono reproducer provided either a compatible or stereo cartridge wired for mono is fitted and that recent equipment may already be fitted with a suitable cartridge."
 
 
 
Richard

My two LPs [I still have my first two from 1971] have this printed on the back.

 

The trouble was that the cartridge used for the first four years of their lives was an un-compliant mono one. I only keep them for sentimental reasons, as they play very badly as a result, even though they look mint.

 

ATB from George