At war, again

Posted by: Bruce Woodhouse on 26 September 2014

How does this happen? Within days the armed forces of my country will once again be at war; and yet we seem to have had no real debate or indeed dissent.

 

I'm ashamed of our response. Do we not understand that we are doing exactly what ISIS want? Islamic jihadist recruitment gets easier with every assault, and ISIS has grown up as a function of our previous actions in the region which created fragmented, embittered, radicalised and desperate populations with common cause against the West in general, and against anyone who opposes them locally. I'm reminded of the sorcerer's apprentice, the threat doubling with every swipe of the axe.

 

ISIS are apparently formless, and stateless. They will melt into the populations and diversify under our crude assault, bubbling up under different banners in different places. They will work their propaganda with all the tools we give them. They will use civilian shields and gain strength as we expect them to wilt. They will behead one more journalist and we will respond with hundreds of tons of explosive dropped from a plane.

 

I'm nauseated by our stupidity. I'm repelled by the sanitised language of war; the 'surgical strikes' and 'precision weapons' and 'collateral damage'. All nonsense; we are killing, maiming and destroying. We are are creating the landscape of future rebellion, not 'degrading' it.

 

The only route to moderation and peace is a socio-economic one, yet we destroy the infrastructure and the economies anew. Many on here berated the inability of Israel and Palestine to move away from the action/reprisal vicious circle yet we are doing the same.

 

Well I don't support it. No, I don't have a decent alternative because the whole thing is such a monstrous mess since we waded in with our dear US alies that I cannot see how it can be rescued however I know what we are doing will not work, it won't make me any safer and it won't make the communities of the region any safer. It will just make the vulnerable hate us all the more, and we will kill people literally uncounted in the process.

 

OK, I'll get on with my work now. I don't feel better but hey ho. I just don't understand how we let our leaders do this, again and again. Too distracted by the golf it seems.

 

 

Bruce

Posted on: 09 October 2014 by George J

Dear Kevin,

 

I believe in realities. 255 young British men killed and many more wounded some permanently to defend 1820 people who want to remain British.

 

The answer in this case is absolutely not. We should have given each a serious inducement to return to the UK, and let the Argentine have the Falklands as HM Governements of both Labour and Conservative stipe had been trying to do for years prior to the Argentine Military Junta deciding to invade there Falklands.

 

I would hate for me to be defended in such a way in two Islands so obviously not part of the modern sphere of influence of a middle ranking European [in economic terms] Country.

 

All that the War has managed to achieve is that the UK will be responsible for the Falklands for at least another generation, before those Islands can be returned to their natural sphere of influence, being Argentina.

 

As you will see from my last post, this is not a view only of people from my generation but good and moral people from the generation who fought Nazism. I would have thought that my quoting them would have underlined my rejection of Nazism and Fascism, though I restate that here for any who might doubt it.

 

Self-determination does have practical limits as in Honk Kong nfor one example.

 

AT from George

Posted on: 09 October 2014 by Huwge

Appeasement, fascists, dots, join

 

Posted on: 09 October 2014 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by Kevin-W:

George -

 

Do you believe in self-determination? The right of people to choose their sovereignty?

 

Do you think fascism is A Very Bad Thing? I'm assuming that as a civilised person, you do, and that you also support the principle of S-D.

 

The people of the Falklands (which were unoccupied when they were discovered by the Europeans in the very late 17th Century) want to be British. In 1982 they were invaded by a fascistic military junta from Argentina. In the only positive act of her wretched 11 years in charge, Mrs Thatch sent a task force to protect those people.

 

The deaths of all those young, largely innocent Argentine conscipts has to be laid at the door of Galtieri and his cynical, vicious dictatorship.

 

Until the people of the Falklands decide otherwise, we have a duty to protect them from aggressive foreign incursion, be it from Argentina or anywhere else. The size and population of the Falkands, and the cost of this protection, is neither here nor there.

+1

Posted on: 09 October 2014 by George J

Dear Don,

 

I would not call

 

+1

 

an answer, but only a noise.

 

ATB from George

Posted on: 10 October 2014 by Don Atkinson

Originally posted by George in another thread,

 

"I appreciate that Kevin has made a fair and reasonable argument contra to my position, which though I disagree with it, I find it civil and worth reading.

 

Please don't advise a complete stranger how to conduct medication. I would consult a medic on that at times when I had to, such as when my leg was broken two and half years ago ... It was a figure of speech George, and you know that.

 

But what a shame that it took eloquence from someone else rather than you to at least reply to my point. I haven't responded to you yet, other than a simple "+1" indicator of my viewpoint, but I recognise your implied insult none-the-less.

 

I suspect that you are a person much better at giving it than taking it. More insults.

 

I suspect many reading these exchanges will agree. No doubt.

 

And that your standing here is very much diminished as a result. No doubt.

 

I however have no standing here, and therefore absolutely nothing to loose from an honest and consistent statement of my position on this and that ...

 

ATB from George"

 

George, you do seem to be taking this all rather badly. Your position is unjustified. I will reposnd to your posts(and others' posts) as and when I please (assuming I wish to respond) and not at your behest. Please be gracious enough to recognise this right.

 

Cheers

Don 

Posted on: 10 October 2014 by George J

Dear Don,

 

And so will I respond to future posts of yours as I feel fit and as I wish.

 

Don't you dare try to bully anyone else, or I'll be on your case like a tonne of bricks.. You are one of nature's natural bullies, and unfortunately for you | have the courage of  a Wellington or Churchill in dealing back what the bully disposes.

 

ATB, and watch your step, from George

Posted on: 10 October 2014 by Lionel

Too much "wodka" George?

Posted on: 10 October 2014 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by George J:

Dear Don,

 

And so will I respond to future posts of yours as I feel fit and as I wish.

 

Don't you dare try to bully anyone else, or I'll be on your case like a tonne of bricks.. You are one of nature's natural bullies, and unfortunately for you | have the courage of  a Wellington or Churchill in dealing back what the bully disposes.

 

ATB, and watch your step, from George

?

 

For once I agree with Lionel..................

Posted on: 10 October 2014 by George J

That would be later. Just you wait. Stalin would have nothing on what I might post, if I did!

 

ATB from George