Spotify connect and bluetooth!

Ha! You're cheating there Nick! sticking a £2,000 DAC in between a Mac Mini and an Amp... ; ) but yeah, it should... I was a bit dissapointed with the sonic performance of Spotify via Airplay into an AirportExpress and then into an ND5 XS (hence my hopes on Spotify Connect)

I am really surprised by that though... a 320Kbps internet stream sounding better than a local (I assume loss-less) rip? Does a Sonos Connect actually inject so much cr*p into the sound?

I must admit, when I had my Sonos connect in my main rig feeding a Nait XS, and then brought home a nDAC I was extremely disappointed with the results (Lossless Rips in NAS -> Sonos Connect->.Naim DAC -> Nait XS).. Only when I changed the source (an ND5 XS replaced my Sonos connect) I saw the light....  

I'll try connecting my Mac Mini to my ND5 XS via optical cable and play Spotify and see what happens... Not that it's an idea setup for me but just to see how it sounds....

Are HDX & US included in the Spotify upgrade? Naim seem to concentrate all efforts on streaming products at the expense of servers...

Hi, Alonso,

I enjoy the conversation.

At the risk of being chided for insisting on taking the discussion away from the merits of Blue Tooth, which are admittedly many, if that is what you want, I must say in the spirit of "telling it the way I see it", I did hear a demo at my dealer's of Deezer via Sonos Conect into ND5 XS > 282 > HCDR > 250.2 > PMC 20.26 and it sounded really fine.  Maybe my Connect is a bad sample.

In the context of my system, and given that this IS my favorite hobby, the fact that my $499 Mac Mini has effectively become a "dedicated" Spotify server doesn't seem that insane.  I no longer want it for rips, now that my NAS hosts my music and I play that through the NDX.  Each piece justifies its existence; though, if I am honest, I have no idea if I would have been equally happy with the ND5 XS instead of the NDX -- I bought the latter because it was a demo-deal.

My only quibble now is that I hate having to leave the Naim app to control Spotify via SpotRemote, or  iPeng and SBT.

Nick

Nick, I am interested in your post. I have only got the Vorbis codec used in Spotify to sound at best as AAC at 320kbps, which is ok, but a long way short of Naim satisfaction levels for me.

I am interested to muse on what Vorbis decoder Naim are using in the Mu so and ND devices. The current optimum library is ported for floating point, albeit there are is the 'Tremor' port which is made for integer only and optionally small memory foot print devices presumably at some sonic compromise. 

Therefore will Naim be using the full floating point port I wonder?

Taking us to Spotify will introduce some of us to a new lossy codec with its own idiosyncrasies.

Simon

Bluetooth Aptx, well enough said. To me it has the same value as the wifi antenna on Naim's streamers ;-)

Jude

My limited experience of Aptx suggests that, despite its SQ limitations, it provides a stable, reliable connection, which is more that could be said for the wifi capabilities of my Superuniti.

Really?

According to http://www.naimaudio.com/updates v3.22 is for the NaimUniti2; the last update for the NaimUniti was 3.17

I have read that spotify is thinking of lossless music.

Would the update on Uniti be able to manage lossless?

Why do you think it not be able to do it? As long it's got the code to deal with whatever service (e.g. spotify) has been installed in the streamer (e.g. Unit, ND5, etc) the fact that the stream is lossless or lossy is irrelevant. In fact, it already handles higher-than-CD quality anyway.  

Yes, really. Just update your Uniti and come back to thank me.

.....Well, that fell on deaf ears!! 

Likewise, I would find it interesting to know if this functionality will be available for those using HDX or US as local players In a main system. I've certainly no intention of changing out my HDX for a streamer as this does everything else I need it to with immense ease.  I prefer nServe too.  Hope the Naim servers are not going to be forgotten about as time goes on?

Spotify Connect.........

Promised May 201,4 became September and now it is November. But not available as update for current Naim users. See mail below:

Hi

We are starting to ship new products with Spotify Connect in the next two weeks. We will be making Spotify Connect available as a free software update for existing Uniti and streaming product owners once all compatibility testing is complete. More information on this update be will announced in due course.

Regards

Steven Hopkins 

Customer Relations Manager

My Naim gives me the best sound I'v ever had, but in some ways Naim acts too slow to market developments and requirements. Spotify will be there the first quarter 2015 (when we are lucky) and the (IOS) App is not as good as is should be.

There are some competitors better on track. But I will hope for nice developments in a short term.

EV

ABOVE POST

We will release the update when we have completed all of our tests, we cannot today confirm an exact date. We are working on it and it will soon be with a wider beta team, so I am sorry to say you will have to be patient.

Paul

Are you able to confirm if the Spotify integration will be available to the original 24/96 NDX?

I have one and haven't had the need to have the new board installed.

Thanks

Richard

Hi, Simon,

The fact that I am practically indifferent between listening to Spotify and my AIFF rips has led me to hope that, once I get my system into a permanent location, with better speakers suited to that location, I may yet hear a bigger difference.  Still, I do hear a difference between the Squeezebox Touch, Mac Mini, and Sonos into the same DAC, and prefer them in that order.  I have always wanted the Sonos to win, because it is the most flexible and widely supported player I know of; and I liked the UI best, last time I used it.  It is possible there is a setup issue causing my results, though they are consistent in two houses, with many different speakers, after visits and tweaks from both dealers.

To Alonso's point about the last 5%, I think most here would probably agree.  That said, it is hard to quantify sound quality at all.  What would 50% better mean, after all?  I do not consider myself as picky as most here, especially considering my views on Spotify.  I don't hear profound differences between my digital sources; all but my Connect are excellent.  The fact that the Connect at my dealer sounded good to me adds to my suspicion that I have a bad one.  It does not sound broken, merely lack-luster compared to all the others I have, consistently, after lots of cable swaps and configuration re-checks.

I am not trying to put anybody off Sonos; I want to add my experience data point to the big picture.  I find it interesting that digital devices can sound so different, against my original belief.

Should everybody care about 5% better?  Of course not.  I am glad there is room here for those who do.  What made me care was my first Naim system, inserted into my 5.1 system.  A used 112 / 150 / FC2X / CD5X.  I expected to be unimpressed, but was wowed by the improvement these boxes made, playing through my same old KEF Q-50s.  Was it more than 5% better?  It sure seemed like it, to me!

Nick

Regarding spotify Lossless please Look here

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2014/...ting-lossless-audio/

regarding the Update Point:

Maybe die to the experince with airplay

Despite the 48K issue I was rather unhappy with the sound I was getting from one of our Apple TV's. Long story short I tested 5 and there were noticeable differences. The two best sounding devices were a 2nd and 3rd gen so it wasn't even possible to say 2nd good or 3 bad. 

My n=1 experience was quite positive after hearing a Sonos Connect hooked up to my NAP 100 / DAC-V1 at a dealer. I gave in and bought one. With nothing more than a Mark Grant mains cable and an Atlas coax cable it sounds great in to the DAC-V1. To be fair it looses a little bit of detail to the Mac Mini using the V1's Asynchronous USB connection, but it's not enough to stop me enjoying the music. Currently listening to Endless River via Beats Music and I'm smiling. Think I'll have to get the 24 bit version from Qobuz Best thing about streaming imo is the try before you buy aspect.

I thought the extracts from that interview to Pascal de Mul (head of hardware partnerships at Spotify) was very interesting...

The extract below encapsulates one of the few question marks I have

"At the moment, we don't think we can do it [lossless streaming]. We're testing it, we're looking at it, but we don't want to go back to that pre-Spotify time where you'd double-click on a track and you see a little timer going, and only after five seconds the music starts. That's an experience we don't really believe in"

The first question that I would ask de Mul would be, would it not possible to offer lossless and lossy in parallel? Qobuz and Tidal do it, don't they?  He talks about that (the delay) is an experience they do not believe in. Surely, it will all down to broadband speeds right? Wouldn't a disclaimer similar to the one used by so many some providers when streaming/downloading stuff down 3G/LTE networks for example, something along the lines of?. "Hey, this might not be as quick as... depending on your network connection...  ") sort of thing. Anyway, doesn't really matter. 

The other thing is that he says

"At some point, of course, we will go to lossless. Whether that's in 2020, 2030, 2040, it depends on bandwidth and how quickly we can upscale that."

Given how many lossless streaming services are cropping up (relatively speaking), that the 'time frame' he's giving the company sounds a bit out of touch with the speed of the market....

Finally, he states

"We make a service for 40 million listeners, and not all 40 million listeners would like the trade-off between higher quality and waiting. They expect that instant feedback"

That sounds like "We'll offer lossless streaming as a default and only option for our 40 million listeners or we don't offer it" Does it have to be that way? A two-tier pricing (lossy and lossy/lossless) seems to be the sensible approach... Most listeners will not be interested (nor have the necessary hardware) to enjoy a lossless stream, and won't be interested to fork out the extra money to access it.

That's a good question... It all depends, if Spotify do lossless, what encoding format would they use? Currently Spotify like the Ogg containers, as they use it encapusulate the Vorbis compression codec and wrap their own metadata with it. Now I do see that FLAC has been encapsulated by Ogg, so if Spotify use this for lossless, then Naim might need a codec update to support Ogg FLAC.

Simon

Goodmorning Mr Stephenson,

No problem to wait. Better a good tested and reliable update than a lot of bugs. The issue was the wrong (too early) way Naim communicate the launch. First it shoud be there available May 2014 etc.  Also now the Naim website if full of Spotify information and promotion........for new buyers, not for existing customers now. But oke, it is nice it will be free of charge as update later on and we have to be patient for now. But as marketeer, I would have chosen for a different way op launch.

Best regards,

Edwin