Qobuz or Spotify to ND5-XS - and how?!

Dear me, what a lot of issues.  I do understand your frustration though with everything you mention.  My solution was adding a Naim DAC-V1 and a dedicated PC.  Why?  Because no one dictates what you can do with it.  I stream Qobuz Lossless, Spotifty, Naim Radio, Stream ripped CDs from a NAS drive, watch Netflix, I-player etc, even pound out Youtube music videos through my main system when I feel like it.  The disadvantage is that I can't easily operate the PC with my I-things, but wireless keyboard and large Panasonic TV serve me well. 

Tidal is a new competitor to Qobuz, and although the sound quality is not as good, in my view using the solution above anyway, still offers Lossless FLAC CD quality streaming that should still be a step up vs Spotify and the rest.  I for one really hope that Qobuz make it, and I have been a subscriber since it became available in the UK to the tune of £20 a month, but most importantly to the tune of some fantastic music reproduction.  If nothing else, it's going to be a real bum trying to recreate my background playlist, which left to run from end to end, would be four days before it finished.

I could plug my MacBook Pro into the DAC of my ND5-XS but then it would be less appealing to my beloved. Also, unless I bought another computer, it would be less convenient and always, as you say less operable from iThings. And, of course, a Sonos Connect is always going to be cheaper than a new computer.

A Sonos connect is cheaper, but I still can't quite understand what it really does to justify £279, when a Mac Mini is only £400.  In the grand scale of things within high-end audio, neither represent a huge outlay.  However, I suppose you must have already catered for other requirements such as Netflix etc, so to just stream Qobuz it's not worth the cost of a decidated PC, Mac or otherwise.  

My primary source is a Mac Mini in to a DAV-V1 over USB. Together with a CD and 24 bit quality library it sounds great. Using it with the iOS Remote app is also very convenient and easy.

So far so good. Where things broke down was needing to use an iOS screen sharing app for streaming services etc, which was too much hassle for me and too cumbersome for my wife.

In the end I gave in and picked up a Sonos Connect a couple of weeks ago. With decent power and coax cables it sounds very good imo. I'm using Qobuz and Beats. The app is easy to use and has a nice array of features. I actually prefer to use Qobuz through the Sonos, because I find their apps clunky and unreliable. 

One nice feature of the Sonos is aggregated search i.e. you can search your iTunes library/NAS as well as streaming services for music. Additionally you can create mixed playlists i.e. 1 playlist can have music from a variety of sources. With 5.2 it will also search music on the device you are using to control it. The only negative is that it won't play the 24 bit music in the main iTunes library. My wife is now using the Sonos controller exclusively.

I'd have preferred to buy a Naim streamer. Until they can either: keep up with services in the way Sonos and Bluesound do; or the inevitable shakeout in the streaming music market happens and Naim only has to support a couple of services, the Sonos will tide me over.

As I said on the new products 2015 thread, I'd love to see a Naim DAC/Streamer with replaceable PCBs, much like NAD is doing.

I agree that compared to a base model Mac Mini the Sonos Connect is expensive. However imo to get the best out of a Mini as an audio source, it's needs to be: dedicated; have 8GB of RAM; and an SSD, all of which bump the price up to over GBP 1000.

I don't live in the UK, but in GBP terms I paid 220 for the Connect. Considering it comes with a years subscription to Deezer at GBP 120 I think it's pretty good value for many people. Apart from Beats I don't think there is much to choose between the 320kbps streaming services and so for many people Deezer's bigger library would be a plus over Spotify.

Graeme,

Before buying something new, just use your iPhone into the USB on your ND5XS to play Qobuz or similar.  That uses the digital out from the iPhone.  Plug in the phone, play something from it using the remote or the app on another iDevice, pause the music.  Now pick up the phone, select the app of choice and play music.

Charlie

I confess the my view on the value of the Connect vs anything else is very much a surface judgement, I am not very familiar with the product.  I agree also that an SSD is good to have, I chose one because they are silent and very fast, but anything important tends to be stored on a NAS drive anyway, so depending on how fussy you are about noise and speed you could easily save some money.  Also, and this is using Windows not Mac, 4Gb is ample for music streaming in my view.  I've been streaming music all day and only using 1.2gb in total, and on a Windows PC that's not been re-booted or switched off in 6 months.

To be honest I was in the same situation regarding Sonos. I'd only ever heard the Play speakers and a couple of years ago was sufficiently unimpressed to by a B&W for the kitchen.

I only heard the Connect by chance. I was testing speakers and the dealer was interested in playing some of his test tracks on my NAP 100 / DAC-V1. The easiest way was to hook up a Sonos Connect. As I said previously, with a decent shielded power cable and coax interconnect it sounded very good.

I should make clear I'm no Sonos evangelist; last week I ordered a Mu-so for the bedroom, but until the streaming market settles down, I think the Connect makes a good interim solution. Where I have been particuarly impressed by Sonos is on the software and services implementation.

Regarding the Mini. Unfortunately RAM is now soldered on the Mac Mini so it makes sense to at least bump it to 8GB. In my experience Mini's can last a long time if they have a reasonable spec. It's just a real shame you can no longer upgrade the RAM and for the most part the HDD yourself.

I have an Airport Express connected to my Superuniti via optical. The sound is poor, the only reason I use it is that the AE is needed there anyway, and it's convenient for low-fi stuff like iplayer radio, which I use quite a bit from my iphone. As a connection for your main source, I wouldn't consider it.

Thanks. That's helpful. It wouldn't be my main source but nonetheless I'd still want it to sound good.

Thanks Charlie. Yes, I've tried that. I actually set my iPod Touch off playing iTunes through the USB and then switched to Qobuz. It worked fine but, partly due to the layout of the room, it's inconvenient to control and also awkward to see what's playing if you're in some sort of random mode. Sound-wise it may be the best option but logistically it doesn't work for me.

Thanks for your advice Greg. What I don't understand is how you would use a Mac Mini without a monitor and keyboard/mouse, which would surely be further outlay (and aesthetically lacking).

I don't need a large hard drive because all my audio files are stored on a Synology 6Tb NAS and my main source is of course the ND5-XS. I want to use the on-board DAC on the ND5-XS for whatever I end up streaming through. It's beginning to look like the Sonos, though of course nobody's been able to give an opinion on the directly installed Spotify. Frankly I don't see how it can be noticeably better than streaming via Sonos. Also, I like the flexibility the Sonos offers should Qobuz bite the dust. Already Tidal is shaping up as the new kid on the block although I don't know much about it, what the classical and jazz offerings are, for example.

My audio system is in a different room to the TV, so I can't use that as a monitor. But I would be interested in a Mac Mini if it could work without the extra kit.

It's not too hard to use a 'Headless' Mac Mini without monitor, keyboard and mouse. In fact they work really well. As well as using a couple at home and the office I also have 4 at Macminicolo.

The key is to activate screen sharing once you have it all setup.

http://support.apple.com/kb/PH18689?viewlocale=en_US

Once that's done you'll be able to use another Mac, or any computer that supports the VNC protocol to control the Mini. This is helpful if you want to manage software updates etc. It's also possible to do this with an iOS screen sharing app. I use 'Screens'. As I said before though it's clunky.

If you want to make it easy to load more music in to your iTunes library, simply share the 'Automatically Add to iTunes' folder in: ~/Music/iTunes/iTunes Media/Automatically Add to iTunes

Then just drop files from your Mac Book on to the shared folder and they will automatically be added to theiTunes library on the Mini.

http://support.apple.com/kb/PH..._US&locale=en_US

Finally the most important part. Get yourself a copy of Apple's Remote app. With that installed on your iOS devices you'll have full control over the iTunes library on your Mini using an iPad/iPhone. 

https://www.apple.com/apps/remote/

Here's a screenshot from earlier. You can see a nice feature added last year that allows you to edit the 'Up Next' list.

I wasn't sure how much detail you needed/wanted. If you have any more question just ask.

 Well, thank you Greg. That's certainly above and beyond! It's given me an insight into the possibilities with a Mac Mini which may well come in handy in the future. However, for access to Qobuz (or other streaming services) it would be using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.

If I understand correctly, you are using iTunes to stream your music library whereas I am using the Media Server app on my Synology NAS. All my music files are FLAC files which are not compatible with iTunes.

But that wasn't really the issue as the music server side of things works well as it is. It's getting access to the streaming services, in particular Qobuz, that's created the conundrum. I think the answer is to get a Sonos Connect. Everybody praises the Sonos app and the connectivity and, if Qobuz do fail, it would be simple enough to replace them with another service (as indeed it would also be on a Mac Mini).

Thanks again for your marvellous response. Very helpful.

Which of those Macs are yours?!

I for one am very pleased that Naim are supporting Spotify. I'll be using my NDX for this purpose & am selling my Sonos connect (which was used by my wife exclusively for Spotify). The connect is very much in demand so by buying one you would not lose much in resale if it didn't work out for you. They might be expensive but in my experience it worked flawlessly for 4 years with a great user interface.

Re. Qobuz I took the free trial but my internet speed is currently so bad (~0.5Mb/S) that I can't stream the files. Together with the £20/month fee, limited library and risk of bankruptcy it's not got off the ground for me.        

We will know if Qobuz has re financed or gone bust by the end of the month according my notes (3 months after late August) , that's when the special protection ends I believe.

Given that there appears ia fairly regular stream of Qobuz partnership deals with audio manufacturers according to their news pages, and that they are still recruiting with several current job adverts, it's looking promising - but we won't know for sure just yet.

I read Spotify are possibly looking to put themselves up for sale, turbulent times....

Simon

So I just went out and bought a Sonos Connect. It's fantastic! The way it sets itself up makes you realise that humans are really an outdated idea. It found my UPnP server without problem, accessed Qobuz as soon as I'd input my password and it sounds great. Admittedly not as good as my ND5-XS but still pretty good. And the controller app works (remember that, anyone?). A year's free subscription to Deezer also comes with it: not my choice but can't argue for free.

Was so happy I went out (again) and bought two Play 3 'speakers to put in the lounge. Now the quality shows: a good couple of divisions below my Naim rig (but then, only a tenth of the price!) but I still had a most enjoyable evening putting it through it's paces and also listening to some very interesting music from Qobuz. It's a great service, particularly for classical. What it lacks in pop/rock is made up for by a hugely diverse catalogue. 

Glad you are pleased Graeme. There's no doubt in my mind that Sonos have really executed on convenience and ease of use.

Regarding Deezer. On thing I've noticed is how Sonos's aggregated search highlights streaming service catalog size. As expected Qobuz is the smallest and Beats is on a par with Spotify, but Deezer's library is noticeably bigger. For example the Deezer results will often have a recent remaster as well as the original version of an album.

It's one of the things that is broken in the industry.

There should be a universal streaming protocol.

You should only need to put in the URL , Userid and Code for any service.

What is the real difference from internet radio?

Being able to choose what's playing.

Obviously

But if they used the same protocol then it wouldn't be a challenge.

Until there is a day when companies make products to suit the needs of every individual buyer in the world, this is what we live with. Not being a smart ass, just think you may have a bit of unrealistic expectations.

I think the best solution is just get a cheap used pc or mac.  You can probably get a solid, owner refurbished mac min for a couple hundred and tuck it anywhere and you can then stream whatever you want.  If you are just streaming music you don't need some high end processor with 1 TB of SS storage and 16 GB of RAM

At the bit that matters with the media - they do use essentially the same protocol for the media playout. The difference is addressing, discovery and media control. It is possible to do things on the hone LAN that you couldn't do on the public internet in this regard.

If you want to set a web radio server up at home and stream from it, you can, the reason most don't do it is that it is not as flexible or user friendly as UPnP/DLNA.

All this stuff is relatively straightforward, the bit that gets in the way and spoils the party - is when people use sub standard/cheap consumer grade network componenets that are ideal for web browsing and mail and probably little else, or start to over complicate things.

After all would you put dirty oil into your nice new motor?

Simon

It depends to an extent on how you live. Some people are quite happy having a PC up and running in their living room but I'm not. That's office stuff and I like my living area to be full of soft furnishings, fine art and really only a hint of tech. Each to their own.