Qobuz or Spotify to ND5-XS - and how?!

Posted by: Graeme MacArthur on 09 November 2014

I'm beginning to lose sleep....

I know that Spotify will be implemented on the next firmware update. Spotify will only stream at a max of 320kbps which is not really satisfactory when you're putting it through a fairly high-end Naim system. I would have thought that Qobuz would have been a better choice with it's FLAC streaming, although I understand they are having some sort of financial problems which might sadly take them out of the picture. You know, really you should just be able to choose which service you want to subscribe to: you shouldn't be beholden to any manufacturer's deal - it's you who bought the damn thing in the first place! I had a similar problem with my Panasonic smart TV - I wanted to subscribe to Netflix but they only offered some other movie service (I can't even remember their name: suffice it to say that they quickly went belly-up). So I had to buy an Apple TV, which I only really use for Netflix and renting an occasional movie through iTunes.

So, here I am again. Naim are going to allow me to connect to Spotify, a service that I used to subscribe to on my Mac and phone but dumped because I didn't use it very much. What I really want to do is subscribe to Qobuz, but how to connect to my ND5-XS?. There seem to be two options: buy a Sonos Connect for about £275 or an Airport Express for about £75. The Sonos is the most workable option but it would only really be used for Qobuz and if they go out of business it will become something of a white elephant. The Airport Express would only work by allowing me to use Airplay to stream Qobuz from my iPhone/iPad through to my ND5-XS, but it would still have some limited functionality if Qobuz do go out of business.

What to do? Would the sound of Qobuz be degenerated if I sent it to my ND5-XS via Airplay? If so, would it be worse than Spotify at 320kbps but built into the firmware of my network player? I'm enjoying a free trial of Qobuz at the moment and I think it's fantastic but would come in a bit expensive at £19.99 a month. Still, it's good, so I could bite that bullet. But I'd be peeved if they went out of biz and left me with a Sonos Connect that I don't really want (eBay?). Or maybe I should just wait for the firmware upgrade and see how Spotify sounds.

As I said, I'm beginning to lose sleep.

Posted on: 14 November 2014 by dayjay

Originally Posted by Graeme MacArthur:

Originally Posted by GregU:

Until there is a day when companies make products to suit the needs of every individual buyer in the world, this is what we live with. Not being a smart ass, just think you may have a bit of unrealistic expectations.

I think the best solution is just get a cheap used pc or mac. You can probably get a solid, owner refurbished mac min for a couple hundred and tuck it anywhere and you can then stream whatever you want. If you are just streaming music you don't need some high end processor with 1 TB of SS storage and 16 GB of RAM

It depends to an extent on how you live. Some people are quite happy having a PC up and running in their living room but I'm not. That's office stuff and I like my living area to be full of soft furnishings, fine art and really only a hint of tech. Each to their own.

My little assetnas is in a cupboard under the tv, you wouldn't know it wss there and it works perfectly. Of course I'll probably be shot for having it in the same room as my hifi kit but its a good compromise that works for us. Trust me, there is no way my wife would have a visible pc in our living room, it took some work for her to agree to speaker stands

Posted on: 14 November 2014 by GregW

Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

All this stuff is relatively straightforward, the bit that gets in the way and spoils the party - is when people use sub standard/cheap consumer grade network componenets that are ideal for web browsing and mail and probably little else, or start to over complicate things.

When Spotify indicated a smooth and immediate streaming experience was one of it's reasons for not yet offering CD or better quality streaming I wondered if one of the things they had in mind was exactly this.

Posted on: 14 November 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Hm, the issues I refer to are nothing to do with bandwidth or resolution of media, but more to do with control, management and navigation protocols carried by the home network. This would be the same for a 64kmp3 as 192/24 Wave file.

i think the Spotify issue that I see them refer to time again is speed of play out commencement.. I've read that waiting 2 to 3 seconds is apparently unacceptable.. Can't quite work out who would find that unacceptable.. But anyway could be fixed by upgrading their servers if they wanted to. I'd prefer to wait 2 to 3 secs over 0 secs for 44.1/16 playback any day.

Simon

Posted on: 14 November 2014 by GregW

Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

I must have been half a sleep! My bad.

Posted on: 14 November 2014 by GregW

Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

I agree, I'd prefer to wait a second or two for better quality, but I doubt I'm in Spotify's target demographic! However, they clearly think it's important.

Out of curiosity I measured the time it took to stream a track from the 3 services I have access to. I used an iPhone 6 on wifi and a random but previously unplayed track.

2.81s Qobuz
2.19s Beats
0.85s Deezer

The time taken is consistent with the quality of the stream.

Posted on: 14 November 2014 by ChrisSU

Originally Posted by Graeme MacArthur:

Originally Posted by GregU:

Greame, I absolutely agree that a computer in your living room is to be avoided. I'd also like to have no rack full of black boxes, just good sounds to listen to. But they are also computers in part. So is a TV, a phone, an iPad, etc. A Mac Mini on your rack is just another box, is that any worse, or any different, to having a Sonos, Hugo, Nait or whatever? A PC in your living room might be one of the smallest, most easily hidden boxes of all.

Posted on: 14 November 2014 by GregU

Originally Posted by Graeme MacArthur:

Originally Posted by GregU:

You can just tuck the mini under one of the Hermes pillows laying around.

Posted on: 14 November 2014 by joerand

Despite its outward rigid appearance, vinyl really has quite a soft, warm and cuddly personality. It loves to be held then played .

Posted on: 15 November 2014 by Graeme MacArthur

Originally Posted by GregU:

Originally Posted by Graeme MacArthur:

Originally Posted by GregU:

You can just tuck the mini under one of the Hermes pillows laying around.

I've a rather tasteful Balenciaga sac à main that I used to keep my Fabergé eggs in (before I sold them in order to buy my Naim system). That would be fine for a Mac mini. It's the accompanying keyboard, mouse and monitor that would offend my discerning eye, although I could possibly put them in a Lidl carrier bag.

Posted on: 15 November 2014 by GregU

Not to drag this out.....But the mouse and keyboard can be another laptop, iPad, or iPhone (or android phone I think) which connect to your network and can be in another room

Posted on: 15 November 2014 by GregW

Originally Posted by GregU:

Not to drag this out.....But the mouse and keyboard can be another laptop, iPad, or iPhone (or android phone I think) which connect to your network and can be in another room

Exactly, almost any device. It only need support the VNC protocol. I'm not very familiar with Android, but there is bound to be one.

My wife's conditions for allowing a TV and Hi-Fi in the living room is that they must be hidden.

In this example the storage unit contains a Sky Box, switch, Apple TV, Logitech IR Blaster, NAP 100 / DAC-V1, Mac Mini (No display, keyboard or mouse.) and finally a Sonos Connect. Everything is controlled with an iOS device and or the Logitech RF remote.

Next week when the granite slabs arrive, the robot vacuum cleaner lighthouses which are protecting the speakers will disappear.

Posted on: 15 November 2014 by Graeme MacArthur

Originally Posted by GregU:

Not to drag this out.....But the mouse and keyboard can be another laptop, iPad, or iPhone (or android phone I think) which connect to your network and can be in another room

No, I know. I'm just being purposefully difficult. But it would be more kit than I would need, a Sonos would be (is) ample for all that's required, tucks out of sight () under the Naim and has allowed me to add other speakers around the house. We already have 3 Macs kicking around the house: that will do (although the new minis do look nice...).

Posted on: 15 November 2014 by Graeme MacArthur

Originally Posted by GregW:

Originally Posted by GregU:

Not to drag this out.....But the mouse and keyboard can be another laptop, iPad, or iPhone (or android phone I think) which connect to your network and can be in another room

Exactly, almost any device. It only need support the VNC protocol. I'm not very familiar with Android, but there is bound to be one.

My wife's conditions for allowing a TV and Hi-Fi in the living room is that they must be hidden.

Next week when the granite slabs arrive, the robot vacuum cleaner lighthouses which are protecting the speakers will disappear.

My wife would never allow me to have a TV that big. 37" is all I've managed to get past security. However, she hasn't noticed the two Play 3 'speakers that I've put in the lounge... She's about to visit her mother. Maybe I could sneak in a 42" whilst she's away and she may not notice. Obviously her faculties are beginning to fail her. It's my job to take advantage.

Posted on: 30 November 2014 by Hmack

HI,

Anyone else having problems previewing album tracks on Qobuz?

They have a "4 for the price of 3", and I've been trying to make a selection, but just cannot play tracks directly on the screen, or by using the Qobuz player.

The problem only appears to have arisen (as far as I can tell) over the last few days. Anyone else have this problem?

Posted on: 30 November 2014 by Graeme MacArthur

Originally Posted by Hmack:

HI,

Anyone else having problems previewing album tracks on Qobuz?

They have a "4 for the price of 3", and I've been trying to make a selection, but just cannot play tracks directly on the screen, or by using the Qobuz player.

The problem only appears to have arisen (as far as I can tell) over the last few days. Anyone else have this problem?

Yes. It's not a sequence I normally use but, when I saw your post, I thought I'd try it. I clicked on the "Listen" link for the latest Jools Holland album (who, incidentally, I'm going to see tonight!) and it opened up the web player (on my iPad), looked like it was playing, but sadly no sound ensued. This wouldn't really bother me as, as I said, it's not a sequence that I use. But it's not just you!

Posted on: 30 November 2014 by Hmack

Hi Graeme,

Thanks very much for checking this out for me and letting me know the problem doesn't appear to be at my end.

It's really annoying because I regularly browse albums on Qobuz to help make up my mind about prospective purchases. I'll contact their customer support people, who are usually very quick to resolve any problems.

Thanks again.

Posted on: 30 November 2014 by GregW

I've been having the same issue.

Posted on: 01 December 2014 by Aidan1

But why not use the Apple TV via AirPlay to stream your Qobuz?
That's what I do with a Unitiqute, the sound is awesome, all controlled with an iPhone.

Posted on: 01 December 2014 by Graeme MacArthur

Originally Posted by Aidan1:

But why not use the Apple TV via AirPlay to stream your Qobuz?
That's what I do with a Unitiqute, the sound is awesome, all controlled with an iPhone.

Personally, I don't think the sound via Airplay is that great. I have an Apple TV connected to my TV and my other sound system in another room and, you know, it's absolutely fine - just not great. With a Sonos I can plug directly into the DAC on my ND5-XS and the sound is pretty damn good. Considering it was just over a tenth of the price of the Naim, it's excellent! I will concede that streaming UPnP directly from the Naim is better than via the Sonos but with Sonos I get their nifty app which will control my UPnP server, Qobuz, Deezer and Spotify as well as the input to my Naim rig in one room and the Sonos setup in another room. It works well for me and has more flexibility than Airplay. But then, you think Airplay is really good too, so I suppose "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"!

Posted on: 01 December 2014 by GregW

Originally Posted by Graeme MacArthur:

It works well for me and has more flexibility than Airplay. But then, you think Airplay is really good too, so I suppose "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"!

Or even the ear

Posted on: 02 December 2014 by Aidan1

To each their own my friend.
Only thing is, is their actually any difference?
As Qobuz streams out @ 16bit 44mhz, so does the Apple TV, I'm picking it up hard wired into my local network, so I personally doubt their will be any audable difference?
Not saying there isn't, just don't see why their should be?

Posted on: 02 December 2014 by Graeme MacArthur

Exactly. If you can't hear any difference then it doesn't matter. In my opinion Airplay is the weak link in the chain.

Posted on: 02 December 2014 by Aidan1

Not having heard my Unitiqute though a sonos I couldn't say if there is or isn't a difference.
But is the sonos technically bringing anything to the table that the Apple TV isn't?
Serious question, I don't know.

Posted on: 02 December 2014 by Alonso

Originally Posted by Graeme MacArthur:

Exactly. If you can't hear any difference then it doesn't matter. In my opinion Airplay is the weak link in the chain.

I would tend to agree...

I used to use AirPlay (From an iOS device via AirportExpress) to stream Spotify into my ND5 XS and the sound was really poor (even for lossy standards) I really don't know why. In contrast to this, listening to Radio Paradise (320Kbps) directly on the ND5 is clearly a superior experience. Hence my hopes on the Spotify Connect firmware upgrade sometime during my expected lifetime.

Posted on: 02 December 2014 by GregW

One difference between the Apple TV and Sonos is that the ATV will up sample 44.1 kHz files to 48 kHz.

http://www.tvtechnology.com/op...khz-question-/184354