Disappointed with Spotify, I want my Qobuz streaming back

Simon, When I took up the free trial on Qobuz, I got it through Sonos which I then fed into my Superuniti.

I liked the quality, but the choice available didn't do it for me at the price so I didn't continue with them.

sonos is added clutter though, and the white box isn't so appealing!

Simon I have a different model of listening to music. In my system I only listen to music I have on my NAS, and with my close to 4500 albums that's good enough.

At work I sometimes use my time to explore new music which I do via the normal laptop version, while not having a subscription - so at relatively low quality. For other listening at the office I have almost all my music on losales on iPods. So bottom line I don't see the charm of the subscription for any service on my main system.

As such I can understand that you prefer Qobuz as they seem to have the most interesting collection.

Chris, Bert, thanks for your comments. I have also about 1400 albums on my NAS, but I do like to explore music and versions of recordings. With classical I have found having a lowfi or midfi 320k Vorbis lossy audio from Spotify .. even when playing from my iPhone just misses out too much. Unless it is a simple melody or ensemble, I fail to capture what the musical work is about. Qobuz lossless seems to capture it completely for me.. It's just awkward and not optimal to play with on my Naim.. Unlike shortly with Spotify which I personally find a huge paradox given what i beleive the music replay values of Naim to be.

Simon

Hi Simon,

I currently have Spotify streamed via AirportExpress -> NDX. I cannot complain about the quality but do look forward to having it natively via NDX with the firmware update. I use Spotify more to explore music rather than listen to it. When I see a recommendation somewhere I try to find it on Spotify then find other works by said artist/composer ... But what I cannot do is rely on the music service for "my" music. I still want to "own" the pieces I like most. Be it LP (preferable) or hi res download or CD (last resource).

I have played a bit with Qobuz. I find the search more difficult compared to Spotify but I like the focus on classical which I mostly listen to. But I will not subscribe whilst not natively supported by NDX. If and when this happens I will switch to Qobuz. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Spotify might try to buy Qobuz now that the latter is in trouble and the former reluctant to delve into lossless streaming fearing that this would neopardize their current 320 max based service.

Hi DrPo, I would be suprised if Spotify bought anybody. They are also cash poor and looking for a buyer themselves so I read. Regarding Qobuz financial restructuring, I believe  the deadline is the end of November and so we will know if it's curtains or onwards and upwards shortly. They still appear to be recruiting, there are some quite interesting roles there... so I guess it's looking not too bad.. But we should know in a few weeks.

Simon

PS on an unrelated matter, I note the Qobuz download site is carrying adverts for the new Sony wifi / streaming speaker that to me looks noticably similar to the Mu-so, albeit the Sony a little smaller I think - perhaps a Musette ?

Thank Simon. Did not know. I sincerely hope Qobuz comes out alive and strike a deal with Naim on lossless streaming.

Hi Simon,

I like Qobuz and stream it through a Sonos Connect to my NDS. I made the comparison with ripped CDs on my NAs. The difference is small. Thus, I only buy high res files since CD resolution files streamed form the NAS are more or less equivalent to Qobuz streaming. Of course, this solution adds a box and one might expect a slightly better sound if streamed native from the NDS. I am waiting for native Qobuz streaming from NAIM streamers. Actually, I would love that on the Muso which I am considering as a second system. In the meantime, the Connect is great.

Best,

Michel

I also meant to say (and to add to what Michel says) the thing that really made me stick with the Sonos Connect solution is the fact that is absolutely rock solid connection and is by reliable for what it does.

If you can get a cheap second hand Sonos, it will certainly do the job for you I think Simon.

When native support via Naim streamers for Spotify and / or others comes along, I will do away with the white box though I imagine

I was going to suggest spray paint, but there's a better way: Flexson ColourPlay wraps.

What Qobuz have entered into is known as Procedure Sauvegarde. The mechanics of this, in my limited business experience, are that the business makes an application to the French Court who appoint an investigator whose job it is to decide whether the company has a future and if so formulate a plan to ensure that future is viable. The other option is to wind the business up but if that were the case I think they would have done it by now.

Research on the web suggests that the issue is not cash flow or profitability but more a lack of investment to diversify away from what is a difficult French market at present. Just a health warning on this in that most of the information comes from Qobuz press releases and as they say 'that would say that wouldn't they'.

Whilst not being privy to any of the detail or the financing required, this does, on the face of it, seem of potential interest to Naim And indeed Focal given the French connection. An investment giving the opportunity to influence the direction of a top quality steaming service added to the attraction of such a service on Naim streamers must give it potential one would have thought.

Having reread my post above and specifically the second paragraph, I feel I must add that in no way am I questioning the bona fides of Qobuz more that press comment does not appear to be based on independent assessment.

Camlan, interesting comment. I hadn't thought of the potential Focal/Naim Qobuz connection.... Now that would be interesting...

Simon

Yes. I would not expect, quite properly, that Naim would comment on this on a forum but it appears such an excellent 'vertical integration' opportunity, I would be very surprised if it hasn't at least been considered in broad terms.

I'm using Qobuz on a Squeezebox Touch via the digital out into an NDS. Sounds great. No "clutter" - just a little box which functions as a clock when not used for streaming. Controlled from iPad either by native app or iPeng.  Much, much better than Spotify. 

Hah! I renewed my Spotify account which I let lapse after my free trial with Virgin ran out. Am using it on the Muso at the moment via my MacBook Air. So far it has saved me the price of paying for the 'new' Pink Floyd album, which is reasonable background music, and I never really had much intention of experimenting with Taylor Swift, physically or aurally, so won't miss her.

Have just let Spotify pull together My Favourites as collated on iTunes and apart from hauling in The Beatles, which Spotify does not support natively, I have just listened to The Animals House of The Rising Sun and She's Not There by The Zombies, both early 60s recordings with amazing quality and I do not own either of these tracks. What I do have to admit is that The Beatles recordings are pretty appalling, even 'remastered'. Spotify is clever, comprehensive and the quality is, in my opinion, more than satisfactory for the price. It is certainly mixing My Favourites better than iTunes at the moment.

I tend to mix my music rather than play, say, a whole album at a time and it is the variance between recordings that stands out pretty heavily. Was certainly not prepared to pay £19.99 a month for Qobuz's limited offering, but am not heavily into classical music, which may be its area of strength so will not comment on its output quality or future viability. 

Hi Simon -

Would love to try both Qobuz and Deezer, but neither have launchef here in the US.  I think Deezer will soon, but I am starting to doubt if Qobuz will survive, much less expand.

In the meantime, am having a lot of fun with TIDAL. Have canceled my Spotify subscription and don't miss it at all. The difference in sound quality is huge for me. I could only listen to Spotify for short periods of time before fatigue set in, whereas I can happily listen to TIDAL for hours on end.  That isn't to say TIDAL is perfect -- far from it. It does not support gapless playback, and there are also plenty of gaps in the library. Good news is they are supposedly working on the former, and are not yet complete with injesting. I am now at the point where the only media I am buying is vinyl and some oddball CDs (i.e., albums I don't see in TIDAL and that I think are low odds of being there in the future).

This leaves just one nagging problem:  ease of use/control. If TIDAL or DEEZER announce Sonos support, I'll buy a Connect and use the Sonos remote control app on my iPad. This will allow easy four finger swiping between it and the naim app, and I think it will be good, long-term solution for me (since I do not care about the Sonos 16/44.1 limitation). I could do something similar today using my small form-factor PC (or I could buy a Mac Mini), but I don't like any of the VNC solutions for remote control. I use PocketCloud Pro, but only when I have to (e.g., editing Asset settings). So, as a placeholder, I am using my old iPhone 4 connected to my NDS's front USB port. Works just fine, but I would prefer wireless iPad control, and the larger screen size is much easier on my aging eyes!

ATB.

Hook

With all due respect, your comments make me think you need to discrminate between music and SQ. The Beatles recordings may be, in your view not mine, pretty appaling. the music certainly isn't. 

Do you think I would have every Beatles album since I got Rubber Soul for my Xmas one year, including (at least) 3 White Albums and the complete remastered box set if I didn't like the music they made? I was commenting on the qualities of the various recordings not the music itself. There is a huge variance in production quality in the world of music. 

I'm happy with a Sonos Connect in to my DAC-V1 for streaming services. Once the streaming market has settled or Naim is able to keep pace with Sonos and Bluesound, I'll investigate a Naim streamer.

The economics of streaming music are such that it would cripple Vervent. It would be an excellent way to burn through a pile of cash, which I'm guessing most people here would prefer to go into hifi R&D.

The only people making money from streaming right now are record labels. They have figured out that buying and selling shares in streaming companies is actually more profitable than developing artists.

In Europe Deezer is supported by Sonos. In fact they bundle a 12 month subscription with most of the Sonos units right now. The only difference until now is that it's 320kbps. The last I heard is that they will follow the US and offer the 'Elite' CD quality service next year.

I'm very impressed with the Deezer catalog but the sound quality is not great when compared to Beats and Qobuz. Although not marketed, Beats appears to be very close to CD quality much of the time. If I had to pick 1 service it would be Beats. It has the best balance of sound quality and catalog for me. I've been using Qobuz for almost a year, Beats since the summer and Deezer for a few weeks, after buying the Sonos Connect.

Maybe so and I do take your point which I think in overall terms addresses the future of music retailing in the round which is a much wider topic. However I'm not sure that Qobuz are publicly listed and that being the case it would be difficult to buy and sell shares quickly and effectively without buying the whole thing.

In any event if you are right we can expect to see Qobuz bought by a record label in due course or they will go under.

My apologies if my comments were taken to be critical. It was not my intention.

Buying at least 3 copies of The White Album displays remarkable staying power!

Hi Simon,

I'm with you on your choice of Qobuz. I've tried Spotify and Tidal but Qobuz has most of what I want and the SQ seems of higher quality compared to Tidal. I feel this is because of better source material used by Qobuz. 

The good thing about my set up is I don't need to worry about integration, just download the Desktop and off I go. It works great via AirPlay to the MuSo as well.

Good luck

Steve

Hook, Greg, Steve, thanks for the comments..

Steve do you think these streaming companies all use the same source files, and the difference is down to the local encoding? However the quality for Spotify does vary notably  for the same encoding bandwidth so I suspect they might have indeed different sources. Perhaps some are already lossy compressed, and if so re encoding to Ogg-Vorbis would be double lossy encoding which might explain the dire quality for some of the content at 320kbps

Simon