Disappointed with Spotify, I want my Qobuz streaming back
Posted by: Simon-in-Suffolk on 16 November 2014
I stopped my Qobuz subscription in the summer, and flirted with other services such as Spotify, but quite frankly from a music lovers point of view Spotify is quite lacking compared to Qobuz, and I am starting to really miss Qobuz streaming so I will be swapping back.. The only thing Spotify has for it is larger contemporary choice, and better search, but even there Spotify can be frustrating, and exploring on the web is easier.
However does anyone have a timeline for native Qobuz support with Naim?
i wonder whether for the sake of some added clutter I should get a used Sonos ZP90 and use that for my Qobuz front end for my Hugo, bypassing my NDX all together..
What have members used on this forum?
Simon
In any event if you are right we can expect to see Qobuz bought by a record label in due course or they will go under.
I think it's unlikely if you look at where the record companies have already invested. They are looking for fast growth, large numbers of 18-25's and mobile deals. Qobuz just isn't cool or big enough.
Qobuz is a loss making venture funded business. The last financing round failed for 1 of 2 simple reasons: It's existing investors have run out of patience or cash; and or it failed to attract new investment. As Simon has pointed out, we will probably find out more in the next few weeks.
Keep in mind there isn't a profitable streaming company out there, Spotify has 10m paying customers, yet it's racked up losses of USD 200m.
With all due respect, your comments make me think you need to discrminate between music and SQ. The Beatles recordings may be, in your view not mine, pretty appaling. the music certainly isn't.
Do you think I would have every Beatles album since I got Rubber Soul for my Xmas one year, including (at least) 3 White Albums and the complete remastered box set if I didn't like the music they made? I was commenting on the qualities of the various recordings not the music itself. There is a huge variance in production quality in the world of music.
My apologies if my comments were taken to be critical. It was not my intention.
Buying at least 3 copies of The White Album displays remarkable staying power!
The first White Album was vinyl mono, the second vinyl stereo, the third was CD and the fourth was the remastered CD. Blimey!
One White Album is certainly enough [whatever medium and version] from the musical standpoint. Several versions suggests a greater fascination with recording technique than what was recorded, IMHO.
ATB from George
One White Album is certainly enough [whatever medium and version] from the musical standpoint. Several versions suggests a greater fascination with recording technique than what was recorded, IMHO.
ATB from George
Cheers George, if you saw what these vinyl recordings were originally played on you'd understand the need to replace, but yes I was trying to get the last ounce of detail from what had been played. Try listening to All Things Must Pass from Harrison's album of the same name which, I think, was produced by the lunatic Spector and you might get the feeling I have that over or under production can turn a track into mush. Wheels of Fire by Cream is another poor recording IMHO, but would be very happy if anyone can correct me.
I'm sticking with Qobuz on a monthly sub basis - no risk there and they do seem to be in rude health from a user's point of view - lots of new stuff constantly being added and plenty of communication.
I think the difference between Qobuz and Spotify (at least for those of us who care about sound quality) is that Spotify is an extension of the current paradigm - discovering new music to buy and own; whereas Qobuz is a paradigm shift - no longer a need to buy/own music. I much prefer the latter! To me, £20 a month is much less than I would spend if I was buying cds and so is excellent value.
I don't think Qobuz is quite there yet in terms of coverage of material (though it is constantly improving) or security of continuous service into the future. However if Qobuz does go down, an instant switch to one of whatever lossless streaming services are left is not really a problem. I'm keeping my ripped files and my boxes of cds in the loft but they are hopefully the past not the future.
Pev - I agree to some extent, but trying to discover classical music on Spotify is not enjoyable, where as with Qobuz it is. Also some 50s, 60s music for some reason sounds appalling on Spotify where as a lot more enjoyable for Qobuz. For discovery I still prefer FM quality at least, and Spotify often falls short. Of course Qobuz gives the option on the 320kbps lossy stream if you wish - perhaps if using 3G/4G and a full lossless option for those with static setup. I like the idea of choice.
However I do prefer the Spotify radio and playlist options - and for that reason I still currently keep my Spotify premium account to use in the car with 3G.
Simon
I use a Bluesound Node to stream Qobuz....
It also can handle higher resolutions than Qobuz.
I also wanted to stop my Qobuz subscription but somehow I can't miss it
Hi Simon -
Would love to try both Qobuz and Deezer, but neither have launchef here in the US. I think Deezer will soon, but I am starting to doubt if Qobuz will survive, much less expand.
In the meantime, am having a lot of fun with TIDAL. Have canceled my Spotify subscription and don't miss it at all. The difference in sound quality is huge for me. I could only listen to Spotify for short periods of time before fatigue set in, whereas I can happily listen to TIDAL for hours on end. That isn't to say TIDAL is perfect -- far from it. It does not support gapless playback, and there are also plenty of gaps in the library. Good news is they are supposedly working on the former, and are not yet complete with injesting. I am now at the point where the only media I am buying is vinyl and some oddball CDs (i.e., albums I don't see in TIDAL and that I think are low odds of being there in the future).
This leaves just one nagging problem: ease of use/control. If TIDAL or DEEZER announce Sonos support, I'll buy a Connect and use the Sonos remote control app on my iPad. This will allow easy four finger swiping between it and the naim app, and I think it will be good, long-term solution for me (since I do not care about the Sonos 16/44.1 limitation). I could do something similar today using my small form-factor PC (or I could buy a Mac Mini), but I don't like any of the VNC solutions for remote control. I use PocketCloud Pro, but only when I have to (e.g., editing Asset settings). So, as a placeholder, I am using my old iPhone 4 connected to my NDS's front USB port. Works just fine, but I would prefer wireless iPad control, and the larger screen size is much easier on my aging eyes!
ATB.
Hook
Hi, Simon,
With respect, and hope for your joy, I suggest you acquire a Squeezebox Touch and run it into Hugo and let us know your finding re Spotify. Maybe sample variation is more of a factor than we want it to be, and I have an exceptional SBT and a duff Sonos Connect -- but my SBT into the nDAC/555 DR is so much better than the Connect or Mac Mini with Spotify Connect that I get why people who have not experienced the SBT might not be very impressed by Spotify.
Just between us scholars -- SBT may be dead; but it shows the potential!
Best.
Nick
Hi Nick I have previously used my SB Duet into my old NDAC/555PS, and the result for lossless streaming was somewhat meh.
i have not tried into Hugo, and I suspect I am not even sure where my Duet is now...
I have tried Spotify from my iPad via USB into my Hugo, not a convenient setup, but can offer reasonable SQ. Qobuz sounds very good this way, but Spotify sounds only mediocre, and I am confident it's the limitations of the lossy Ogg-Vorbis streams that cause this.. They sound congested, artificial, and blurred for all but the most basic of sounds, and deteriorate further when the volume is raised.
My system, probably driven significantly by my speakers, is very revealing and I think relatively uncoloured. This provides me huge enjoyment and satisfaction with all my lossless recordings.. But lossy just sounds like that.
One exception is the 320kbps AAC BBC Radio 3 stream. I still prefer FM over it, but Mrs SinS could hear no preference when I did a little test with her. But on Spotify Premium I selected one her current favourite tunes whilst the iPad was connected to the Hugo recently and she turned up the Naim to enjoy and then dismissively said to me something like ' I thought you were supposed to have a 'top notch' music system?' I couldn't disagree.
Simon
Hi Nick I have previously used my SB Duet into my old NDAC/555PS, and the result for lossless streaming was somewhat meh.
i have not tried into Hugo, and I suspect I am not even sure where my Duet is now...
I have tried Spotify from my iPad via USB into my Hugo, not a convenient setup, but can offer reasonable SQ. Qobuz sounds very good this way, but Spotify sounds only mediocre, and I am confident it's the limitations of the lossy Ogg-Vorbis streams that cause this.. They sound congested, artificial, and blurred for all but the most basic of sounds, and deteriorate further when the volume is raised.
My system, probably driven significantly by my speakers, is very revealing and I think relatively uncoloured. This provides me huge enjoyment and satisfaction with all my lossless recordings.. But lossy just sounds like that.
One exception is the 320kbps AAC BBC Radio 3 stream. I still prefer FM over it, but Mrs SinS could hear no preference when I did a little test with her. But on Spotify Premium I selected one her current favourite tunes whilst the iPad was connected to the Hugo recently and she turned up the Naim to enjoy and then dismissively said to me something like ' I thought you were supposed to have a 'top notch' music system?' I couldn't disagree.
Simon
Having said this, I am listening to the Handel Trio Sonatas on Spotfy Premium playing out into my IPad Air in built in speakers, and despite the constraints of that system.. It sounds enjoyable.. So Spotify has its place.. You just need to respect its limitations..
Do you think the variability is with the source material or a function of adaptive streaming Simon?
Greg, I think, though not sure, the Ogg Vorbis is fixed rate rather than adaptive compression, so the more complex the music the more info is discarded.
I really don't know why there is so much variability. One theory I have is some of the 'masters' are already lossy so are being double encoded...
Simon
Hi Simon -
Would love to try both Qobuz and Deezer, but neither have launchef here in the US. I think Deezer will soon, but I am starting to doubt if Qobuz will survive, much less expand.
In the meantime, am having a lot of fun with TIDAL. Have canceled my Spotify subscription and don't miss it at all. The difference in sound quality is huge for me. I could only listen to Spotify for short periods of time before fatigue set in, whereas I can happily listen to TIDAL for hours on end. That isn't to say TIDAL is perfect -- far from it. It does not support gapless playback, and there are also plenty of gaps in the library. Good news is they are supposedly working on the former, and are not yet complete with injesting. I am now at the point where the only media I am buying is vinyl and some oddball CDs (i.e., albums I don't see in TIDAL and that I think are low odds of being there in the future).
This leaves just one nagging problem: ease of use/control. If TIDAL or DEEZER announce Sonos support, I'll buy a Connect and use the Sonos remote control app on my iPad. This will allow easy four finger swiping between it and the naim app, and I think it will be good, long-term solution for me (since I do not care about the Sonos 16/44.1 limitation). I could do something similar today using my small form-factor PC (or I could buy a Mac Mini), but I don't like any of the VNC solutions for remote control. I use PocketCloud Pro, but only when I have to (e.g., editing Asset settings). So, as a placeholder, I am using my old iPhone 4 connected to my NDS's front USB port. Works just fine, but I would prefer wireless iPad control, and the larger screen size is much easier on my aging eyes!
ATB.
Hook
Deezer is on SONOS in the US as of about 11-14-14. So far excellent audio at 44.1/16. Interface is beta and so rather primitive, i,e, no Rovi etc. I'm running through the paces for the 30 day trial. Have Spotify also but will only keep one. Hurry up Naim and update the firmware for Spotify Connect!