Naim's uPnP server software on a NAS

I'd be very surprised it Naim went for this. I, too, took the easy route of the Unitiserve/Superuniti all Naim option, thinking it must be easier to achieve a reliable, stable setup. Re. your last paragraph: despite the all-Naim hardware, I, too, took some time to get it running reliably. If an all Naim setups still have issues, I'm not sure putting their software in someone else's box would help.

Both of my streaming solutions are the same.

I bought a NAS ( A Synology in my case ).

I plugged it into my network.

I installed the manufacturers software automatically.

I added music to the NAS.

I got a streamer ( NDX in one system, Arcam AV amp in the other )

I selected the Server from my streamer.

I pressed play.

I heard music.

There is nothing that Naim could have done to make it any easier. I don't want to have to do anything else whether that is instal other software or the NAS or make network configurations.

I do understand that others have had issues but I really don't see that these are Naim's issues. I think that it is nice that they are willing to help but I see that as a courtesy.

Bananahead, I take your point, but many people press play, and don't hear music. Or only sometimes. If Naim and others choose to sell products designed to work in domestic networks, something needs to improve if they are to work anywhere near as reliably as non-network attached systems.

I think that what Naim could do is to provide a FAQ type guide that lists all of the likely things to look at

I agree, solutions I've addressed in part with the help of forum members could be made available more easily. You can usually get a computer or phone to work on a network quite easily, but playing to a Naim streamer, you need to understand a little more about LAN configuration, IP addresses, etc. Your average consumer doesn't know what these even mean, and in most cases, doesn't really need to.

A couple of points.  First, the 'Naim UPnP software' isn't really THEIR software -- it's licensed.  There are a few pieces of software in their servers, and I can't recall, but I think that it's not all licensed as one package; it's something they've put together.

And their servers run a version of Windows -- not the operating systems that many nas boxes run on.

If I were Naim, I would find no reason to embark on the suggested endeavor.  They'd have to get 'their system' first in-licensed to permit this, then running on many many more hardware and software platforms than it runs on already.  Then they'd have to support it.  And they'd have to support it each time nas box providers issue updates to software and/or hardware.

It seems a relatively poor business to be in, and best left to others. 

Some good points made.  So maybe in a Naim FAQ guide they could suggest a third-party product like Asset which is known to work well so at least people get a pointer to a path that has half a chance of working.

ChrisSU's first point is a much more succinct way of putting down what was going through my head when I posted this.

You mean like this

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...im-tested-nas-drives

You might need this, too ;-)

https://drive.google.com/file/...UDg1dUNzSTNVS28/view

Yeah I am with Bananahead on this, I could not see a good reason to go out and purchase the NAIM server so I also setup (well it was already setup before I decided on UnitiLite) a NAS (QNAP 412).  With this this setup I can play music, run MySQL for some apps we run at home and control backups of our PCs.  So if I had bought the NAIM server I would still have to purchase a NAS.

ps I run MinimServer on my QNAP and it is brilliant.

Chris that document looks remarkably like a document that appeared on this forum and was supposedly put together by a person on this forum.

What a Huge coincidence!

That's exactly what I thought.

My network issues - to the extent I have them -are not with my hard disk store/NAS or streamer (whether one of various Sonos units or recently a Mu-so) but with the general wi-fi connectivity between my router and iphone/ipod/ipad system controller. 

IME this is by far the weakest & least reliable link in the chain needed for pressing play to result in music reaching my ears. I think it is a serious oversight, as seems to be case with most streaming solutions launched thus far, to leave this vital element outwith the design brief and thus customer satisfaction with potentially very expensive products dependent on mass market sub £100 third party products or cheap chinese giveaways from broadband providers. 

Olly

Olly,

You don't have to use cheap consumer level networking gear manufactured with the main attention being to minimise cost; you could use higher quality devices made for commercial environments.  It's your choice.

What I think would be inappropriate would be for Naim to attempt to produce such equipment themselves.

Please forgive a streamer & Naim novice, but I have a question that seems relevant to this particular stream. I have a UQ2, a Seagate NAS and a Mac Air and am trying to get a decent organisation of my music. Tried Asset, but their Mac version doesn't seem to work (and the interface is not intuitive in any case), have been banging my head against a wall with Plex now for a week or so. Great interface but it has this annoying habit of listing multiple copies of all albums, there are some albums it refuses to play, and the alphabetical directory works not at all. I guess that I am after alternatives or ways to fix Plex. Many thanks in advance.

Quite often it's not your choice.

Both of my Internet providers also provide IP phone services. And they both expect their own boxes. Before I went fibre on the one in Switzerland I did try a third party modem/router that also had phone capability but I couldn't get it to work.

The only networking issue that I have had was when Orange France ( the ex-state provider ) decided to remote flash their box which blocked some ports needed for remote NAS access.

However, I agree, why spend a lot of money on Naim and then go cheap on network equipement?

Don't Seagate provide their own Media Server? Does this work?

Have you tried asking on the Plex forum?

Alle, the issue with subnets is that you have to seperate from each other and route between them . Much domestic equipment just can to this with wired networks. I don't know the details with Sonos, but perhaps they create their own network on a seperate wireless network.. That would work, but as we know wifi is not usually great for hidef.. Something Naim is very capable of, but Sonos do not support.

i suspect many issues we see on this forum is down to the use of protocols that many cheap domestic network devices struggle with. They shouldn't but is it not so often the case in consumer land, if it's not widely understood or visible, then short cuts are taken?

Therefore a potential solution would be to go a full bespoke TCP based client server setup.. That could run on the flakiest of home networks.. That would require non trivial software development.. I am sure it would improve things.. But I suspect it's not where Naim are..

I do feel Naim are potentially missing a trick not releasing its software on a non supported basis to run on Windows.. although perhaps they fear the inevitable clamour to port to OSX and tiny embedded NAS operating systems that would probably be unsustainable to implement.

Simon

Naim recommend Asset. That's probably as far as it will go. Why put the hardware based server business in jeopardy? To anyone who is running a streamer fed by something like a US or HDX I recommend taking an hour (or less) to set up a software server on the NAS/PC/whatever, just for a quick comparison. It won't mess anything up, it is quickly and easily reversible and it might sound better. Taking my HDX out of the loop was a revelation.

Something that we need to remember is that people only come to forums like this with problems.

How many streaming solutions have Naim sold?  How many have had problems?

If you just read this forum then you might think that it was 80%  but I suspect that it is much much fewer.

UPnP aside,  many if not most forum problem posts with streaming are because of issues with network application; poor set up, wireless, homeplug adapters & router issues.

Seems to me nothing beats KIS with ethernet connection only & a switch rather than wireless router as the network hub.  

That said I helped someone set up his 3 room Sonos,  it was impressively simple & to me was really true UPnP.  

Streaming is going to finish off high end hi-fi. The approach the hi-fi industry has taken to streaming has created an unintended narrowing of their potential market. Basically, you're on your own. Technical knowledge is required to set up a network to provide on-demand file playing. This forum is used by people who have a high degree of interest and this knowledge, but the postings prove that even they have difficulties in sorting out software and data storage problems. I'm afraid that for most people, most of the time, setting up a new system is too much  hassle. The available software is of a cottage industry level, bolted onto storage technology that was never intended for the purpose of streaming sound. The industry needs to make it easier to plug and play. If it can be done for mobile phones and TV receivers, then not to attempt to do so demonstrates a lack of will to gain a wider public. That approach is a road to declining fortunes.

A first step for Naim would be to rebox the Unitiserve into a full width unit pitched at the 5si entry level price point, roughly £1k. There would be lots of profit still and it would allow the dealers to offer a complete turn-key system.

I don't think that the iPad mini I bought was a cheap consumer device, after all the only more expensive unit I could buy at the time was another Apple I-product.  But the over-expensive iPad, compared to our two laptops, is quite poor connecting to our net - via WiFi of course.  This is not just me a friend of mine has iPhones and uses the larger screened iPad (which he bought specifically to access a legal database) and he also has WiFi connection problems.  Interestingly he reports fewer connections on 3/4g with his iPhone - cf WiFi. 

I must say though, that since I junked my BT HH2 and replaced it with a Billion the iPad is much more stable but don't try running it at the higher speed (the Billion is dual speed - 2.4GHz and 4.8GHz)because the range is poor.  Needless to say my wife's laptop has a much greater range at the higher speed, miner don't do 4.8GHz.

You have to remember that we are the double lunatic fringe.  Most people don't have a living room with large speakers and racks of black boxes and don't care that much how the music they listen to sounds.  We know this is true and has been true for a while, just look at the success of the Compact Cassette in the 1970s.  The quality of pre-recorded material was worse even than the limited quality of the medium, just look at the poor quality if the tapes thy used.  But it was a hit and for a while out-sold LPs.

The second lunatic fringe bit is the idea of setting up a network to listen to their high quality network.  Some people might use a few Sonos boxes with their easy setup but poor sound and even that is considered strange by normal folk.

But be honest folks how many of you enjoy the struggle?  I know I do.

+1 for the switch simplifying things.

Simon's answer is also correct (as ever!).

Bananahead, if you took those networks with which you had trouble, and plugged the streamer and NAS into a switch and finally ran a cable from the switch to your ISP provided router, then your problems would have gone away.

This is the sort of network configuration to which I was referring.  Leave your ISP's provided kit to do the function for which it was designed - just route traffic to and from your ISP.  The switch handles the audio, they're a lot simpler and a lot less picky about protocols (particularly as they don't have to do external security duties as well).