Would I benefit from adding a switch?

Mike, i agree with your philosophy, however unless you are using an entirely analogue piece of equipment with linear powersupply, I say high frequency interference can rear its head from many sources.. not just SMPS. Digital clocks, high frequency clocked logic circuits, CD logic/stepper motors, hard disks, network leads.

But I agree the SMPS and Ethernet are probably the biggest culpritts. But let's not forget de jitter circuits..yes the SPDIF jitter is almost certainly eliminated.. But at what cost in terms of digital noise side effects.. And of course there is the WAV and FLAC decode sonic signatures.... All manifestions (IMO) of high frequency electrical noise... And no doubt this noise get into places it shouldn't and start to bouncing/reflecting up and down interconnects at very very low level..

Simon

Mike,

Unfortunately I can't go round to my neighbours houses or the local BT exchange unplugging their Ethernet over powerline adapters, smart meters, DECT phones etc., nor can I fit RFI suppression to all their other electrical stuff.

Suppression at source isn't always possible.

and if I might add to that.... CFL and LED lamps... damn Christmas tree lights!

Huge  I very much doubt that BT exchanges are using ethernet over Powerline adapters 

they do tend to be RFI controlled areas in my expierience, and of course generally ethernet over Powerline and ADSL are not considered good bed fellows.. as they clash in part of their frequency spectrum.

Simon

DSL is typically up to 0.1 to 1.1meg and Homeplug starts at about 1.8meg.

Simon,

I would be VERY surprised if the BT exchange is a real source of RFI, but it illustrates that there are things around other than houses, and it's the one I can see.

However, BT or not, someone / something in my general vicinity is messing up the mains as I get a pretty distorted asymmetric waveform and a lot of muck.

I was just pointing out that when you've cleaned up your own house, the more you leave your windows open, the more the muck flies in from the outside.

Ferrites help to close the windows.

ITU 992.5 is typically 1.1MHz to 2.2MHz

Huge, do you live in urban or rural location out of interest..   And do your toroidials buzz (!?) like they are going out fashion when the mains looks decidedly ropey?

Hi Simon,

Urban location

The toroids don't buzz at all now that I have a homebrew mains DC blocking filter (which also has RFI suppression in it - big CM and DM inductors!).  Before that, yes they did buzz somewhat variably, but they were never really quiet,  I didn't have the test gear long enough to establish a definite correlation as the mains was never good enough to get a good clean reading with no buzz!

Actually that gives me an idea - I'll think about it a while: I don't like connecting stuff (even test gear) to main without thinking it through very thoroughly.

I was specifically thinking about Homeplug products (which are 99.99% of the powerline products out there).

If anyone's feeling bored ;-)

http://www.homeplug.org/media/...ite-paper_050818.pdf

I was talking about ADSL2+ 

Gotcha :-)

Hi Guys, just a quick update.

My 'switch' is now in place, but at present I'm using my old £5.99 Ethernet cables. However, 'Santa Meerkat' is on his way (sorry about the Avatar, it just had to be done!) with an Audioquest 0.75 'Cinnamon' Ethernet cable, and a couple of Audioquest 'Forest' Ethernets for demo purposes.

Looking back over this thread, I'm given to understand that the most important Ethernet connection is between the ND5 XS and the switch. Correct?

Please could you tell me, in what order of importance, are the other connections.

1. Switch to router (Sky Hub). (3 metres apart)

2. Qnap NAS to switch (10 metres apart)

Thanks Guys

2 then 1.

Thanks HH, Just amended my reply, from NAS to router, to NAS to switch. is it still the case?

The other part(s) of my philosophy(s) (or is that philosophii) revolves around the teachings of Phyl the Fixer & his theory of  "if it ain't broke".  

I have done all I can to reduce my own SMPS generated RFI with a combination many different means.  In doing so I believe have also reduced (maybe even blocked) RFI & EMI from other sources. So if I can't hear or measure & no matter what extra ferrite or whatever gizmo I add, I do not hear anything that changes or makes me believe it still has a problem;  thats me dun, it ain't broke no more.    

Right I got a bunch of these ferrite things. On the one hand people are saying not to bother with power cables, on the other they are essential on SMPS.

So which is it?

Both - what you need to do is have ferrite on both sides of the SMPS(s) that are on the audio system or are on the same power circuit as the audio.  

See my post on this post 21 Dec @ 10:11. 

Ferrites on the SMPS DC cables are easy

On the AC side, if the SMPS is a "wall wart", then the only way is to mount it/them on a power strip & fit ferrite to the power strip cable.  The Tacima CS929 6-Way is excellent as it has a common mode choke that also helps suppress switching noise & RFI.

Um, is this not what my belkin PF30s are doing though? 

Well they were cheap but I am not understanding what I am achieving. I have put some on the ethernet cables.

Yes,  thats what the Belkin PF30 does,  but what is actually plugged into the Belkin ??  & where are the SMPS)s) plugged in ?

With SMPS's the general idea is to surround them with ferrite as that will dampen switching noise (RFI) that they push out in both directions at various MHz frequencies that the Belkin will not handle.

OK fair enough. I don't have dedicated power to the hifi, so there is a double socket and on the end of each socket is a PF30. This powers all the hifi and the TV and mac mini.

There is only one wall wart for a small switch. I have stuck a ferrite thingy on that.

I have never seen a ferrite ring on a traditional 'kettle lead' so will not bother there.

I assume you mean you've put a ferrite on the SMPS DC cable ???  did you wind it around the ferrite a few times ?

I would put whatever you have spare on the audio (amps & source) power leads.