I grant you your choice to remain blissfully ignorant to everything that influences digital playback.

there is a whole new world for you to discover 

Doubt it!

Tell you what guys, I had the opportunity at the Bristol HiFi show to hear the Devialet kit which is heavily integrated, short ranged, compact and quite exquisite. It is a package and not a 'Morgan' shaped HiFi. It sounded great, not sure if the 200, but quite extraordinary. That is the digital future.

Andarkian

i have a University degree in Computer Science, am working all of my working life in IT and have designed, built and implemented more and bigger computer systems than most people. You don't have to tell me about the workings of computers.

And still I know for sure that the bits-are-bits people are so wrong because they cannot look outside of their limited digital world image.

I know of many other aspects also influencing digital playback that I wouldn't even dare to mention here, because though many are open for it, many also are not.

But you are allowed to have your opinion, but I know you're not right.

that's your loss, not mine.

Am saying naff all about the internals of computers just the resultant output! Jeez, if you're so scared about the integrity of the output we had all be better going back to pen and paper! Go on, dare to tell me how my bits and bytes have been compromised, I can take it!  Indeed, with 8k of sloppy memory how did the Americans land on the moon In 1969, or are you a moon lander denier?

Come on guys you all need to relax and play some tunes and stop thinking of 1 and 0

You have no idea how much I agree with you. I love the sound, but I hate the elitist HiFi BS. If I stick tinfoil on my head it is not going to alter the reproduction from my Muso.

Not heard much 'hifi elitism' in this thread recently, just a few enlightened comments and observations from a few  who appear to  have spent their  careers working with digital electronics.. and sharing thier expieriences of the  real world effects of digital electronics on other electronic circuitry. It still puzzles me why some find this so difficult to accept, and why for some strange reason why hifi and audio is somehow magicly excluded from these affects.

Simon

Simon, it's the tinfoil hat that does it - worn by the amplifier of course! 

What are you contributing, other than telling some people that what they hear they really don't hear?

That's not all that interesting to most.  But unless / until you violate the terms of the forum, I suppose you're entitled.  Or until you get bored.

The point is they are completely missing the point.

they are soooo stuck in their binary world view, that they can't see it is not about the bits.

And nobody is saying the differences occur due to different bit-values, but they occur due to all kinds of analogue 'side effects' that also play a role in the world of digital music chains and music reproduction.

but as said, it is not my loss.

I'll step out of here, I have come across too many of these guys.

Aleg, Bart, Huge, extactly.. Its their loss .. We have sadly seen this mentality often over the years  on this forum .. I blame the education system 

I want a picture please of you testing this hypothesis ;-)

I think you need to also indicate thickness of foil, %age alluminium, make/brand and detailed drawings :-) Just to ensure we get it right :-)

Irresistible - considering the sign

Brilliant! Hope you have ferrite rings on the leads that control that horse. Okay, I give in I enjoyed the verbal sport but in the end it is your individual hobbies and not for me to disparage that too much. Mea culpa.... until the next time 

I'm pleased I started this thread, it's getting rather lively! 

Anyway, moving on...I have now installed the switch, but as yet, haven't purchased the Cinnamon Ethernet cable, still using the £5.99 one. At present, I don't detect any change in SQ. 

With regards to ferrite rings, I have dug them out on ebay and at a fiver for 10 seems like a simple thing to impliment.

I have got 5 7 and 9 mm ones.

Looking back through the thread am I right in thinking, just slot them over ethernet, i.e. dont wind the cable?

But its not clear what other cables need it. all of them? Does this include power?

Also for things like phono cables, I am not confident I would be able to wind the cable around the ferrite here either, they are not expensive cables but they are reasonably thick.

Also when I looked on line about ferrite rings it said to put it at the 'noisy' end. Which I must confess confused me significantly. How would I determine the noisy end? I presume from this statement I am only to use on ring per cable?

Even the cinnamon is improved by a ferrite ring. Chord Company C-Stream strangely doesn't seem to need a ferrite.

Regarding andarkian - it's a common  mistake - thinking that their mental model of reality is reality, while in fact, it is just a model of reality. Helpful to think about reality, but limited, nevertheless.

Gary, yes slot over the cable.. looping the cable multiple times through the choke increases the effectiveness of the choke, but not always recommended for ethernet leads.

You can as many chokes as you want on the cable.. One at each end of the cable is often a good way to start..

good luck

Simon

Gary, I would only wrap an Ethernet around a ferrite if it was a Cat5, the better spec'd twisted pairs of Cat 6 & 7 especially can be damaged with tight bends.

SMPS need loads - as Simon Sez.    AC power can take few as well.

I will send you more tomorrow when I get home.

I am fairly fastidious re cable dressing to maximise the music coming out of my system.  I find ferrites on my C-stream helpful, both on my local music switch, and on upstream router & switch links(?).  Also on the powered USB drive link to my Unitiserve, and on my DC1.

In their top-end sources (eg NDS) and power supplies Naim go to extreme design efforts to reduce noise.  Even then, an NDS improves with two 552PS each doing half the job.  So everything helps, and is a big part in making digital sound as good as analog.  In a 'cleaned-up' system I find my good 16/44 rips have elevated to a level where they don't seem significantly inferior to hi-res versions of the same music.  Until recently  didn't appreciate just how much music there was within the classic CD format.

I agree with Hugh, the effects of noise reduction is cumulative - also there seems to be a threshold where any degradations are immediately noticeable .  The effects can range from the obvious - hardness, sibilance, nasalness on voices, congestion, loss of dynamic range - to the subtle loss of naturalness, transparency and flow.

I was recently puzzled by a significant loss of subtle musical resolution, and investigating found my incoming ADSL phone line had been moved and now touched the upstream CAT6 from my switch.  Reinstated 5cm separation and the music was fully restored!

I have a couple of belkin power thingies (PF30s)

I think they protect the system by oreventing large spikes or some such, what is the forums opinions of such things?

Also on these devices is an ethernet pass through, I have never used it on the belief that ethernet should be kept away from power, and breaks in ethernet change where avoided is best.

I visited Maplin on Thursday, whilst in Bromley, and asked a member of staff for some ferrite chokes. He didn't have a clue what I was talking about, and referred me to their online catalogue. I thought that was where some members got their chokes from? Or, like Gary, is it a case of getting them on Ebay. 

With so many different sized cables in my possession, (flat & round) what is the best way to buy the correct size, the correct amount, and where from?

Maplin have them - they even have their own section in their online catalogue.  Look under 'Ferrites & EMC'.