Time to ditch this car?

It is debated by Stag owners pedantically in various places. Why Triumph ignored the existing Rover V8 at the time is also hotly discussed.

if you posted 'is the Stag engine two dolomite blocks stuck together' in the SOC Forum you'd be in for a lively exchange of views.

No matter, when fettled and cared for it is actually pretty good, and it sounds fabulous.

It was considered a good move to ditch the Stag V8 & fit the Rover one at the time, although IIRC the main problems with the Stag engine were usually caused by lack of proper maintenance & use of incorrect antifreeze.

You could certainly do a lot to improve the Rover V8; I owned two types, a 3.5 litre version in a Range Rover Vogue that did about 12 mpg if driven hard and a 5 litre version in a TVR Griffith, which did about 28 mpg, and was very, very fast. However, I think the Stag engine was a more sophisticated beast.

Sorry to anyone that this bores the pants off but hey ... I love 'audio' of many types...

After swapping to straight through pipes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SthbMswkef4

...and since having the last of the cats removed...

https://www.cubbyusercontent.c...494b81bc7039f9d0dc76

I'm told by some of the guys here that it sounds 'epic' when given a bit of wellie and the people three doors down from me loathe me.

As for the SL ... why not use the same theory that I do with the Tiv? When something breaks then you fix it ... once you've fixed it then that bit won't break again so you're making progress. :hehe:

Phil

Sound phylosophy Phil, exactly the same as mine !

One of our cars is a 25+ year old 230TE. We are the second owners and its been with us for over 20 years.

Every 10 years, something has gone wrong ! First it was the battery - admittedly it was nearly 15 years old when that went wrong, so mustn't grumble. Then shortly afterwards, the exhaust. We didn't penny-pinch on replacement parts from Halfords. The Merc dealer's genuine replacement battery cost just shy of £100 and the Merc exhaust was a whopping £700 IIRC.

Then, about a year ago, the alternator. or more accurately a component on the alternator wich set us back another £30

But then, thats the risk you take with these second-hand cars these days. However, as you say, keep fixing them as you go along and you make progress................

Bruce any excuse for a debate?  Near by to us is a guy who has just moved in he has a Stag.

I stopped and chatted to him last week he was attempting to start said beast but realised he must have left something and battery was flat. Just then his mate arrived in another Stag. First guy said his was now pretty reliable having done the usual stuff , uprated radiator thermostatic (Kenlow I think) cooling fan.

Did they ever fit fuel injection? I have only seen them with Strombergs.

My friend "Tone", the builder across the road who owns the Class A (or Class AA ?) Thechnics system, also had the same philosophy when he owned two brand new TVR Chimaeras in succession. One was dark green, the second was Pearlescent Dark Blue. The latter one looked absolutely stunning, with cream leather upholstery. At that time I was stuck with a thoughroughly reliable 4L S Class, second-hand courtesy of one of my brothers. I was envious.

He owned each one for about three years, bought from a TVR dealer somewhere near Chandlers Ford IIRC

To my recollection, he really enjoyed driving each car back to Newbury from Chandlers Ford every six months after it had been repaired and serviced. He never managed to drive the cars "To" Chandlers Ford - that journey was always on the back of a lorry !

In between the six-monthly services he enjoyed one country-drive in the direction of Reading/Oxford/Bath etc but never saw Reading/Oxford/Bath etc before the tow-truck brought him back to Newbury to await his next six-monthly visit to Chandlers Ford.

OK, I might have slightly exaggerated Tone's plight, but believe me - only slightly. The cars looked beautiful. But they were rubbish engineering.

I can well see how Phil enjoys a complete contrast between his work-related products and his cars.

 

I can well see how Phil enjoys a complete contrast between his work-related products and his cars.

 

 

 

*chuckle* Mine hasn't been as bad as your mates ... sure I've had a lot of breakdowns and I've probably dropped £10,000+ into a car that cost me £7,000 and is worth £4,000 but mine is my *ONLY* car and it does do around 15,000 miles a year.

Phil

The original Triumph V8 was Strombergs ... the Rover V8 transplants of the time would have been too. I'm pretty sure the normal RV8 injection manifold and plenum wouldn't fit under the Stag bonnet...

Phil

I seem to remember that Stag V8 was designed to have FI but BL couldn't get it to run reliably.

I just wondered if later models ever had it.

I loved my TVR, it did 28K completely trouble-free miles before deciding to take on the central reservation barrier on the A12. SWMBO loved it too & we both still miss it.

Considering Bruce gave me chapter and verse on the certainty that the Stag V8 was not developed from two four cylinder engines, it is gratifying to see him later concede it is a debating point, and others then confirm that the version I understood was confirmed by authoritative sources.

My source for this was my favourite car repair garage. The owner and I are the same age, and used to play among the wrecks when we were small children. His father was a very clever mechanic, and was very straight forward about which designs were basically hopeless and those which could be relied on to live long and reliable lives. They also ran a rural taxi service, and used Volvo 240s and before that the 144, and 145.

Their view of these was that were significantly better engineered and made than any Mercedes of the last fifty years. Over-complicated was Basil's blunt comment on Mercedes at least the post 1970 designs of even quite modest models. One small fault and you are stranded, and rarely possible to fix at the roadside.

ATB from George

i just enjoy my (non-overheating) car, the second I have owned. None ever had FI withe the TV8, in fact relatively little development took place throughout the car's production history.

I have read chapter and verse of Stag historians arguing about the who, what and why of the origins of the car and the components. Those arguments tend not to agree with the oft-repeated versions available at the flick of a Google search. Frankly this is mainly (I think) to deflect from the fact that a fair bit was wrong with it!

Despite the problems, and poor sales, it is now one of the most popular classics and a surprising number remain on the road. The are also fairly reasonable to buy, and good ones gain in value. Most parts are easily available but if it goes wrong it can get seriously expensive (and the bodies rot badly in certain places).

Bruce

I've had three 123 Series Mercs ie all post 1970. A 230, a 230E and a 200T. Over-complicated is not a description that could possibly be applied to any of them, even the fuel-injected 230E.

And the £30 alternator repair in the 124 Series 230TE was done by the AA whilst we strolled round the park at Petworth.

The subsequent S Class's and Mrs D's C220 Cdi are definitely over-complicated, even by today's standards, but then so is our CRV in BC. Things have moved on and I guess that even the current V70s are more complicated than the average RAC man can fix, although that would be next choice if there were no new E class estate available.

Turning attention back to the Merc SL.  Probably stating the obvious, but these cars can inflict horrendous costs if anything significant fails.  Were I to purchase one, my risk averse nature would dictate:

 - ensure that it will be possible to procure a warranty with decent cover for all major components and one which is not cost prohibitive (that cost being relative to potential repair bills!).  I'd be happy to take a view on warranties after a couple of years with only minor problems.

 - do a bit of research and establish who the best independent specialists are within my region and, if necessary, pay them to carry out a tip to toe inspection to identify potential/ likely problems (I would do this before committing to buy, but you do not have this luxury and I would still do this to help validate a decision on keep/ sell).

At the moment you don't really have an objective basis on which to decide other than there have been a couple of problems and the uncertainty this can/ has generated.  I'd get a thorough check over and then decide.  They are fab cars, provided you have adequate confidence that there is no latent defect waiting to jump out at you.

Peter

The problem with this is that a 'tip to toe inspection' will not detect imminent failure of embedded electronics. These elements - the commonest source of problems in cars of any reasonable degree of modernity - fail without warning. Neither of the problems that have afflicted me could have been foretold.

I am trying to balance the fact of the car's having performed without fault for 8 months against the fact of two failures - both warranty-covered - in one week. Impossible maybe?

Fraser

You could take the car to your local dealer or even someone who knows what they are doing and get them to scan the the electronics log via the diagnostics socket and see if there is any thing lurking in the back ground.

Done already. Nothing bar the fault codes relating to the problems which manifested themselves with obvious symptoms.

Fraser

Fingers crossed.

You'll look back on these two isloated incedents in 12 years time, and be so pleased that you chose to keep your beloved 20 year old trouble-free car that has been an absolute pleasure to own and drive.

I'd say Amen to that, Don.  The biggest expense on cars, particularly up-market marques, is the depreciation hit in the early years. Get a good one and budget for good quality servicing and the odd mechanical fix and in the long run it's better VFM that swapping cars every two or three years or so.  

Our 230TE is testament to this philosophy. 25+ years and still a joy to drive after our 20+ years ownership.

We do have others, but this one still gets to do c.8,000 mile a year

Whilst waiting to meet a relative this morning in Cologne-Bonn airport, itself a bit long in the tooth (certainly terminal 1) a glorious old Merc 300TD estate rolled past in (what appeared to the untrained eye to be) sensational condition.  I'd almost go to say that it looked like it had driven out of the Merc museum, were it not so far removed geographically!

The W123 and W124 series E-Classes were in many enthusiasts' view the peak of Mercedes engineering, especially the W123.  If looked after they will go forever.