SQ of Tidal/Deezer Elite with Sonos through NDX digital in ?

Mack, I use a standard plastic connector. I can't remember the manufacturer, it wasnot cheap cheap, but wasn't overly expensive either.

ChameleonClaude, on the latest app/firmware the sats report on the transport data bandwidth as opposed to the uncompressed PCM data bandwidth. For WAV, AIFF and uncompressed FLAC this is effectively the same, but for ALAC and compressed FLAC the reported bandwidth will be shown less than the PCM equivalent bandwidth because of the data compression, which is what I suspect you are seeing here.

BTW uncompressed 24 bit 44.1kHz stereo should show as around 2.117Mbps

Simon

Thanks Simon. I use DH Labs Toslink plastic...very well made $45USD. Had first Deezer duds last night via SONOS. First, ZZ Top Rio Grande Mud although not unlistenable was very muddled compared to my CD and CD rip. The CD is #3269-2 and don't think a remaster. Second, Primus Pork Soda could not play a few tracks and a pop up prior to one song ending indicated the upcoming track would not play. Over all very satisfied with Deezer as nothing in the tech world is perfect.

Mack

I've decided on a Chord Prodac VEE3 RCA-BNC digital from Sonos to NDX as a 'sensible money' fit and forget.  

G

Simon - I've wired my Sonos directly to my (now full) Belkin Router which also has my PC, NAS and NDX off it.

I'm still getting occasional droputs which is irritating.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

G

Graeme, what sort of broadband connection do you have, and is anything else hogging the broadband connection albeit fairly briefly when you get the dropout?

Sonos also seems to have a buffer, so it can survive a brief pause on the Internet throughput, but only brief. But the FLAC stream is of the order of 800k to 1Mbps, which isn't high. I have streamed two FLAC Qobuz streams concurrently from my Sonos Connect, one to a Sonos Play and another to the Naim whilst posting to this forum with no drop out on a 4Mbps ADSL connection. 

However if my son or daughter download something over the web, my Qobuz and Spotify often stutter on my modest broadband link.

PS I know it sounds silly, but I would also suspect the Belkin, sorry Belkin, so another option to try is to put a switch between you Naim, Sonos, NAS etc and your Belkin ADSL router.

Simon

Thanks Simon - Diagrammaticaly would that be:

Modem > Switch - NAS, NDX, Sonos and Router

Router > PC & other things

Cheers

G

PC and other things can also go to the switch.

OK - Ta.

G

Snap, almost. I picked up a Play 1, while shopping for a new coffee machine a couple of weeks before Christmas!

I'll admit to having been a bit sniffy about Sonos until I bought the Connect. For it's price/performance ratio it's an excellent device imo. I picked up the Play 1 largely because I knew the software side is very solid.

Regarding the Sonos Connect in to my NAP 100 / DAC-V1. I experimented with both S/PDIF inputs but ultimately preferred the coax output to the V1's BNC input. Like GraemeH I decided on a sensibly decent interconnect rather than something more exotic. In my case it's an Atlas Hyper Digital RCA-BNC. I keep telling myself that the Connect is an interim solution so I shouldn't spend too much.

- The NAP 100 / DAC-V1 are connected via a Grahams Hydra to their own dedicated circuit. The Connect and Mac Mini are on a separate circuit.

- The Sonos and Mac Mini have Mark Grant C7 figure of 8 cables. I have found these to be a decent upgrade, while not breaking the bank, much like the Atlas interconnect.

- Network cables are high quality CAT 6, but not from audio cable companies like Chord and AudioQuest. I'm interested in testing some when I have time.

- All power and network cables have ferrites.

- All components sit on 10mm toughened glass mounted on Naim cups and balls.

- Sonos Wifi permanently turned off using the wifi=persist-off function. In trying to optimize the Sonos I've found that turning off Wifi permanently brings a little more detail and a nice; 50%, reduction in power consumption.

- I'm using Qobuz, Beats and Deezer (Sonos promotion)

Regarding reclocking. I contacted Naim directly about the relatively poor audio quality I was getting from an Apple TV. I was considering a Wyred4Sound Remedy Reclocker. The advice was clear. The V1's internal re-clocking would not benefit from double re-clocking with an additional inline device. Adding another powered device in to the system could also bring it's own issues.

It can't keep up with the Mac Mini over asynchronous USB in to the V1 - I use the Mac Mini for my own library of 16 and 24-bit content and Dirac Live room correction - the Sonos Connect is very good. It sounds pretty decent most of the time and on the rare occasion it sounds bad it's down to a bad recording from an online streaming service.

In conclusion I'm very happy with the final output of the Sonos especially when considering how stable and easy it is to use with a vast array music and radio.

Greg, i don't want to knock Naim, but unless Naim state a measured cross talk on the de jitter circuitry, I can't see how you can reliably say there will be no effective or measurable benefit in reclocking ahead of the Naim device.

I have not seen Naim publish such a measure.

The jittter level on the standard Sonos Connect is good, but not exceptional, according to Stereophile magazine.

I am more than happy to let my NDX reclock the Sonos ahead of my Hugo. 

Simon

I tend to agree, but decided not to test the Wyred4Sound Reclocker. In your case you have a solution on hand. 

At the time I was using the Apple TV for Airplay in to the V1, but since I got the Sonos; and Airsonos, I've only used the Apple TV for Netflix and Movies etc. 

I also decided that I don't want to invest much more in to the Connect otherwise I might just as well look at something like the Auralic Aries.

Greg, however I would have thought the Sonos into the DAC V1 sounds pretty good as it is? The Sonos device is not bad in jitter. My point was more about the reliability of a statement saying the jitter is completely neutralised.

Regarding spending more on modifying a Sonos Connect.. I take your point if Naim will provide a more generealised support for public  network streaming in the near future and of course the Sonos is just limited to a max of 16/48.  I do however understand that some of the customised ZP90 options can be evaluated before purchase to see if any benefit is apparent in a particular set up.

Simon

If that is what Naim said then one assumes they measured the outcome and concluded there is no need for any re-clocking before input.

As someone who has tried the Sonos Connect both direct into a Hugo and reclocked through the NDX, I can say the sonic advantages of reclocking the signal are immediately obvious to hear.

G

Mark, I would like to think so, but with out a stated / tested measure it all becomes subjective hence my point on being reliable. You can bet that one person's subjectivity is not the same as somebody else's..

Anyway if the DACv1 reclocking is designed and implemented the same way as the NDX when in digital mode, it is certainly very effective according, to my ears at least. EDIT and Graeme's ears as well

Simon

If Naim published each and every R&D test result these would likely become the subject of wild speculation and misinterpetation by many.

Oh, wait a minute...

Curious to the fact that SONOS direct into Hugo had issues during Graeme's testing and since the Hugo is a portable device as well and likely fed via iPhones/iPods/Android and hi-res devices wouldn't the Hugo suffer the same fate without Naim re-clocking kicking it's world beating reputation to the curb????

Can't explain that one I'm afraid.  All I know, or care about, is how good it sounds through the NDX digital input for extremely modest outlay.

G

Understood. Notice here in the states the Chord distributor is listing a Chordette HD with DSD is available. Wonder if it's the same basics as the Hugo (including performance) without the miniaturization and mobile controls $ premium of the Hugo??

Mackb3, Graeme was initially connecting his Sonos and Hugo via Coax SPDIF. It sounded like he had some sort of earth loop. The Hugo and perhaps it seems the Sonos do not have galvanic isolation. TOSLINK would work in that envionment. Alternatively Naim electrical digital inputs appear to be galvanically isolated, hence by going from his Sonos to NDX using coax SPDIF he had no issues.

Simon

Thanks Simon. Looks like the QBD76 although much higher price trumps the H based on some recent research and set to improve with an updated FPGA chip. I'll definitely give the H a try once proper arrangements are made but for now the NDAC is serving up some really good stuff from SONOS/Deezer.

Have you dabbled in DSD via the Hugo (with USB DoP feed) and if so what are your impressions? Over time and fiber level bandwidth availability I could see services like Deezer, Tidal and the like roll out hi-res and DSD down the road. I think you guys in the UK are ahead of us regarding high speed Internet.

Mack, no I havent, but i believe Wat on this forum has. I don't doubt there are or will be better DACs than Hugo, but it packs an incredible performance, that stll suprises me a year later.

i guess improvements in the future might be with USB noise isolation.. But I don't use USB at the moment.

Simon