SQ of Tidal/Deezer Elite with Sonos through NDX digital in ?

Mack,

i have dabbled (but only to a very small extent) with DSD files over USB to my Chord Hugo. To my ears, the few DSD files I have sound absolutely fantastic - as good as & probably better than any of the hi-res files I stream to the Hugo via my NAS & ND5XS. Not a large range from which to draw a conclusion, but certainly eye opening.

The only reason I haven't considered going over to DSD in a big way is the cost of DSD albums, which in my experience would cost me around £24 - more than I am prepared to pay.on a regular basis.

Hmack,

I hear ya' regarding the cost of DSD and hi-res files in general. I don't understand the reason for such high prices when the same 44.1/16 file is less. I see from your profile you stream ND5 to Hugo. I'm considering a NDX similar to Simon and Graeme. So you are pleased with your combination? Did you try NDX or other streamers?

M

A bit of a side detour

I am contemplating the purchase of a Sonos Connect however not for use in my Naim system (thankfully Linn has integrated TIDAL direct into my KDS and I am enjoying that immensely).  I have an older low end system in the kitchen which I presently use to stream TIDAL and Spotify from an iPad to an Airport Express (connected to said system) via Airplay.  Obviously both the non compressed TIDAL stream and Spotify are using the built in DAC of the Airport Express.

How is the built in DAC of the Sonos Connect?  On par with the Airport Express - better - or perhaps worse?

If it is at least as good as the Airport Express DAC my feelings are that uncompressed TIDAL (and even Spotify) should sound even better as they will not be sent via Airplay (associated dropouts and signal quality) and instead will be pulled directly from TIDAL/Spotify's servers.  Will I see an improvement or will it end up being a lateral move?

Best

Gregg

Gregg, I have not critically listened to it, but the Sonos DAC sounds ok, certainly significantly better than the AirportExpress which is a bit of a shocker other than it does wifi very well. Stereophile magazine seemed reasonably pleased at the performance of the Somos Connect DAC output.

BTW the ADC on the Sonos line in is rather good as well apparently as long as you keep clear of full level input. I am thinking of connecting up my 282 tape out to it so I can route my analogues over my Sonos system.

Simon

Simon and Wat

Thank you for the replies.  I think it might be worth a try.  

I would certainly like to think that:

a (ethernet wired) Sonos Connect directly pulling an uncompressed TIDAL stream

would likely surpass

an iPad pulling a TIDAL stream via WIFI - and then sending it over wirelessly via Airplay to an Airport Express

How is the usability of the Sonos iOS app?  I would be using it with TIDAL, Spotify (my wife likes their playlists), and as a control point for my MinimServer uPnP server.  Is the usability/design interface at least as good as the stand alone Spotify and TIDAL apps or is it missing some "finesse" when compared to the respective streaming services native apps?

Best

Gregg

It's not missing finesse but is generally limited to query (many categories) playlist, and feature albums and playlists. The playlists can be defined at the service level as well as the Sonos level. The latter is nice as your playlists can be accessed by all on your setup. The query is in realtime and pulls back matches across all subscribed services concurrently and the output is grouped.. It is a REALLY NICE feature.

The playlists can contain music from all your sources, even your private UPnP or file system as well as all subscribed services.... They are stored on the Connect.

The Sonos app also allows you to pull back album and artist info from the service current.y playing.

However you will have to give it a go to see if you like it... But it's clean simple and functional.

Simon

Last day of the holiday. Finally got my network simplified and speed upgraded.

Wired ethernet connection to Sonos Connect and a new Chord Prodac VEE3 Digital RCA-BNC into the Digi 1 of the NDX.

Streaming FLAC lossless sounds absolutely superb.

Happy bunny.

G

A BRILLIANT feature. Also includes results from your music library in the aggregated search. Genius.

Sounds like a nice feature however I wonder about its usefulness in a scenario such as mine where I use both TIDAL and Spotify.  I would (obviously) prefer to play back full quality TIDAL files.  If the query finds the same song available from both TIDAL and Spotify how does it determine which to play i.e. the compressed or uncompressed version?

You choose (from the search results). These may also include different masterings if you're lucky.

Nice

Well you can search just within one service if you wish, but if you pull out to the top level it will query  all sources, and will group the service and start with the first to respond. Qobuz is usually quick, that is my preferred, and because of its speed is usually top or second top.

but the results are grouped and branded for each service type , so chosing your preferred service in the amalgamated search results is easier done than said.

You have choice on how you wish to search for media..

Simon

New question

When using the native Spotify or TIDAL iOS app and sending via Airplay to an Airport Express the volume control on the iPad can adjust the sound output on the system.  For informational purposes the "system" is an Airport Express connected to the RCA input of an old Adcom Preamp.  While the volume control of the Adcom remains at a fixed 12 o'clock position (the Adcom is inside a closed cabinet) the volume control on the iPad allows the volume to be adjusted (I guess it tells the Airport Express to increase or decrease the output).

Can the Sonos app do the same thing i.e. increase or decrease the output from the Connect so as to act as a "volume" control?  Otherwise I would need to constantly walk over to the Adcom preamp to adjust the volume (a no go as it is located in another room).

Yes the Somos can, both for digital and analogue outputs. However for top SQ you can also set the Sonos Connect output to fixed level line out, so the volume control for the Sonos Connect  fades out on the app

Now Somos allows you to set groups of players, and you can group the volumes or have them independent. If one of your devices in a group such as a Sonos Connect is fixed, you  can still group it with other devices that have variable volume control and you can vary their volume whilst the Connect remains fixed... again easier done than said.. Very intuitive.

Thanks Simon!

I will most likely run to a Best Buy (similar to your John Lewis) and give one a try.  If the DAC and (lack of dropouts) outperform the Airport Express than it stays - otherwise back it goes 

Mack, I am very happy with the combination of ND5XS and Hugo, but unfortunately have not had the chance to compare with a NDX/Hugo set-up, so can't really comment. However, a number of people on the forum suggest that the NDX/Hugo combination may be better.

For what it is worth, I feel absolutely no need to consider alternatives to my set-up. It is more than good enough for me.

Thanks. Certainly this level of streamer should be superb feeding any competent DAC.

Question for Simon-in-Suffolk:

I too am a Qobuz fan and have been enjoying it immensly for over a year.

I currently stream to a Sonos Connect and from there via toslink to my Naim DAC.  The results are very satisfactory to my ears but I am intrigued by the fact that you go from your Sonos Connect to your NDX and only then to your DAC (a Hugo in your case, and perhaps that's the reason you do it as you do). 

Assuming my Naim DAC in place of your Hugo, what's the additional benefit of going via an NDX rather than straight to the DAC?  Isn't my Naim DAC doing the same re-clocking job that you're using the NDX to do, and arguably doing it better or at least as well as the NDX?  Are you going via the NDX only because your're unhappy with the re-clocking job your Hugo is doing or is there some other reason?  Perhaps I don't have a full understanding of the processes.

I don't have an NDX at the moment.  Having recently sold an HDX that I was barely using (largely the Qobuz effect and Sonos ease-of-use) I aspire to an NDX but only when Naim can deliver both lossless streaming and lossless multi-room playback, ideally in a package as user-friendly as Sonos.  For now Sonos meets all my requirements except hi-def capability.  To this extent my question is probably academic - I'm unlikely to own an NDX unless and until it can do everything that I'm currently getting from Sonos; meaning that by the time I own an NDX I'll no longer need to plug a Sonos Connect into it.  

The NDX is vital in reclocking the Sonos digital signal before transmission to the Hugo.  I've tried the Sonos direct into Hugo and, believe me, don't go there. The Sonos alone is too jittery.

NDAC will be reclocking the Sonos signal just as the NDX I'd imagine.

G

Correct, the NDAC incorporates a buffer for re-clocking any PCM stream according the the white paper. My SONOS connect sounds great through the NDAC. The problem Graeme may have had was the Hugo is not galvanic isolated connecting coax to the NDX straight in based on comments from Simon. Apparently the Hugo TT and the Chordette 2qute are isolated. 

Dear Enlessnessism, I use the NDX as a digital switch and reclocker with my Sonos. I could wire or more accurately fibre  my Hugo directly to Sonos, but the lack of remote and inputs on the Hugo would mean this is inconvenient.

i also subscribe to the benefit of decoupled cascaded de jitter circuits thereby reducing jitter crosstalk. But I have not done any sort A/B testing on this.. If I am honest.. I followed my head to initially setup, and my heart was content so I have left it at that.

Simon.