What are you listening to and WHY might anyone be interested? (Vol. XI)
Posted by: Richard Dane on 31 December 2014
On the cusp of 2015, we start a new thread...
Anyway, links:
Volume X: https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...-be-interested-vol-x
Volume IX: https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...16#22826037054683416
Volume VIII: https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...nt/12970396056050819
Volume VII: https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...6878604287751/page/1
Volume VI: https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...ent/1566878604097229
Volume V: https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...ent/1566878605140495
Volume IV: https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...ent/1566878605795042
Volume III: https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...ent/1566878607309474
Volume II: https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...ent/1566878606245043
Volume I: https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...ent/1566878607464290
A bit of Kitsch Jazz....ok every now and then...
Alexandre Tharaud : Bach Goldberg Variations 2015 Recording
Kuma - I find we're usually aligned in our views on classical music (except for Kovacevich - I've accepted that). But first your take on the Quartetto Italiano, and now Tharaud's Bach disc. To my ears, after a slow but intense and flexibly paced aria (more deliberate trills than most, happily all of them starting on rather than before the beat), Tharaud sounds dramatic throughout the variations, with big dynamic range and long tension arches. Nimble enough, but fleetness does not seem high on his list of priorities here. I'm listening to the files in hires, on the Bryston.
Does the 500 have an attenuator switch? 
EJ,
I didn't think I wrote his playing was in haste of put priority in fleetness. I certainly didn't think so!
That's Walcha!
I am curious to see what you think of Quartetto's Schubert pieces and see what you think. I was surprised, too. I do not have any other disc of theirs.
Tharaud disc was not good enough to play in the main rig ( too noisy ) so it's just via lowly 52/300. So I realise the dynamics are attenuated in this smaller rig but usually it is good enough to assess what's going on.
How is he compared to a recent release of Lars Vogt's?
Back home in God's own county after a few days in The Smoke.... trains all delayed into and out of Kings Cross.. wife out for the evening... playing Bob's Infidels... love the Sly & Robbie reggae groove..... with Mark Knopfler and Mick Taylor.....sounds great through my home loan SL speaker cables.... not that it sounded bad before!
Richard
Alexandre Tharaud : Bach Goldberg Variations 2015 Recording
Kuma - I find we're usually aligned in our views on classical music (except for Kovacevich - I've accepted that). But first your take on the Quartetto Italiano, and now Tharaud's Bach disc. To my ears, after a slow but intense and flexibly paced aria (more deliberate trills than most, happily all of them starting on rather than before the beat), Tharaud sounds dramatic throughout the variations, with big dynamic range and long tension arches. Nimble enough, but fleetness does not seem high on his list of priorities here. I'm listening to the files in hires, on the Bryston.
Does the 500 have an attenuator switch?
EJ,
I didn't think I wrote his playing was in haste of put priority in fleetness. I certainly didn't think so!
That's Walcha!
I am curious to see what you think of Quartetto's Schubert pieces and see what you think. I was surprised, too. I do not have any other disc of theirs.
Tharaud disc was not good enough to play in the main rig ( too noisy ) so it's just via lowly 52/300. So I realise the dynamics are attenuated in this smaller rig but usually it is good enough to assess what's going on.
How is he compared to a recent release of Lars Vogt's?
Vogt's is another outstanding recording. He is more straightforward than Tharaud, without the latter's rough edge - in fact, how you described the Tharaud disc does remind me more of Vogt, with microdynamics as a key reason for sustained interest. Both releases have given me a new appreciation of the music, which I used to consider one of Bach's less moving works (how wrong I was!).
EJ
Because I saw her perform much of this at the Royal Festival Hall last night. And live it was even better than I hoped it would be.
M
Originally Posted by George Fredrik Fiske:
Be very careful with overall timings of the Goldberg Variations. If played at a reasonable [fairly swift speed] throughout, as Helmut Walcha does, then with all the marked repeats a timing of 75 minutes is normal.
If none of the repeats are taken a timing of 38 minutes [at Walcha’s tempi] would be acheived.
Leonhardt made a repeat-free recording that times just a few minutes longer than this. It is rather static at times! Yet the timing would indicate a breakneck speed if compared without a consideration for the repeats. None, some, or all ... Unfortunately most commercial release liner notes fail to mention what is the player’s policy is on repeats, so without listening and noting which repeats are taken, absolutely no idea of the basic tempi taken by a player can be gleaned from timing alone, unless the overall timing is in excess of “say" 80 minutes [slow even with all repeats] or less than 40 minutes, which would tend to be fastish or even very fast with no repeats! Tatiana Nicholeava took about ninety minutes as I remember, and this was distinctly [painfully actually] slow even with all repeats!
Geroge,
That's a good point about repeat.
Incidentally Tharaud's and Walcha's timing is pretty close at approx. 74 min. vs. Walcha's 75 min. But the Walcha definitely comes off livelier and faster out of the gate. (partly due to the nature of the harpsichord he played i'm sure )
I assumed that Tharaud skipped some repeat because subjectively his playing is much slower and more contemplative than Walcha.
I haven't see 38 min. performance, tho. that's fast!
Here's some comparo in relative to GG55 & GG81. I see the Leonhardt example amongst them.
Haven't listened to Tatiana's but sounds like a torture chamber!
Originally Posted by George Fredrik Fiske:
Be very careful with overall timings of the Goldberg Variations. If played at a reasonable [fairly swift speed] throughout, as Helmut Walcha does, then with all the marked repeats a timing of 75 minutes is normal.
If none of the repeats are taken a timing of 38 minutes [at Walcha’s tempi] would be acheived.
Leonhardt made a repeat-free recording that times just a few minutes longer than this. It is rather static at times! Yet the timing would indicate a breakneck speed if compared without a consideration for the repeats. None, some, or all ... Unfortunately most commercial release liner notes fail to mention what is the player’s policy is on repeats, so without listening and noting which repeats are taken, absolutely no idea of the basic tempi taken by a player can be gleaned from timing alone, unless the overall timing is in excess of “say" 80 minutes [slow even with all repeats] or less than 40 minutes, which would tend to be fastish or even very fast with no repeats! Tatiana Nicholeava took about ninety minutes as I remember, and this was distinctly [painfully actually] slow even with all repeats!
Geroge,
That's a good point about repeat.
Incidentally Tharaud's and Walcha's timing is pretty close at approx. 74 min. vs. Walcha's 75 min. But the Walcha definitely comes off livelier and faster out of the gate. (partly due to the nature of the harpsichord he played i'm sure )
I assumed that Tharaud skipped some repeat because subjectively his playing is much slower and more contemplative than Walcha.
I haven't see 38 min. performance, tho. that's fast!
Here's some comparo in relative to GG55 & GG81. I see the Leonhardt example amongst them.
Haven't listened to Tatiana's but sounds like a torture chamber!
Tharaud includes all repeats. He isn't that slow once past the aria...
Huh.. .that's interesting cuz that was no at all my intention! ( have to work on this English language thing a bit more )
Vogt is a nice dude and very good but he always came off a bit short off the mark for me. In fact I was surprised his Goldberg has a rough edge because his playing always came off a bit soft especially his Beethoven concertos. ( but then again, everyone probably sounds a bit *rough edged* compared to rubber like super flexible Tharaud's style.
I agree about the emotional impact of this work. I thought of it the same way. That's why I don't have many recordings of it.
Maybe this is an age thing?
Dear Kuma,
Tatiana Nicholeaeva played a BBC Lunchtime concert at the Wigmore Hall in London a year or two before she recorded the Golbergs for Hyperion. In the concert she played every repeat.
I recorded this concert, which was scheduled to last an hour and half. I taped this concert on two sides of a TDK SA 90 and I was lucky to get the tape over fast enough not to cut any music. It was 88 minutes of music, but when she recorded it for Hyperion she played it without at least some of the repeats, and her performance comes out at 70 minutes I believe, This might just have fitted two side of an LP, which is how it was first issued. If you compare her Hyperion recording with Helmut Walcha, you might conclude that she is slightly faster. 70 minutes compared to 76 ...
In reality, her commercial recording is somewhat quicker than her concert performance was. But apart from some quite flowing tempi here and there - such as in the Aria - she is definitely taking tempi on the magisterial side!
But she plays so wonderfully that it certainly is not like a torture chamber. In fact in younger days I so liked the tape I made that I ruined it with use!
This was in the days before I discovered the harpsichord!
ATB from George
Tharaud includes all repeats. He isn't that slow once past the aria...
Thanks.
Interesting. It's the subjective thing.
This Walcha's Goldberg set is spread over 3 sides but once, I never thought it was slowish.
It's lively out the gate and pretty much keeps its chip up all the way through.
Huh.. .that's interesting cuz that was no at all my intention! ( have to work on this English language thing a bit more )
Vogt is a nice dude and very good but he always came off a bit short off the mark for me. In fact I was surprised his Goldberg has a rough edge because his playing always came off a bit soft especially his Beethoven concertos. ( but then again, everyone probably sounds a bit *rough edged* compared to rubber like super flexible Tharaud's style.
I agree about the emotional impact of this work. I thought of it the same way. That's why I don't have many recordings of it.
Maybe this is an age thing?
Sorry for not being clear, Kuma - it's Tharaud that has the rough edge. I don't know Vogt's Beethoven, but have heard him in Schumann, Brahms and Chopin. He can be interventionist, but in Bach, he isn't.
EJ
My but when she was good she was exceptional,
what an opening salvo, pity things stalled somewhat afterwards.
SJB
Wow. I do not hear ANY rough edges from Tharaud's playing!
Dynamically muted compared to a good analogue vinyl but rough edge? Nope.
You know another one I like is this one by Ishizaka Kimiko. She made it a free download. I usually do not like Japanese or most Asian pianists but I found her surprisingly good.
Sévère and the excellent Prazak present a young man's view of Brahms' old man's clarinet quintet, and once past the initial shock of those fall leaves in bright greens, I find it a truly great performance. Raphaël Sévère did an excellent recording of the Brahms sonatas last year (with Adam Laloum on piano) and surpasses himself here.
The surprise of the disc is Hindemith's clarinet quintet. It's one of his modern scores, still largely tonal but with a recurring dramatic six-note theme that gives rise to all manner of outbursts. Hindemith was a variable composer, and happy to have found this jewel.
EJ
Wow. I do not hear ANY rough edges from Tharaud's playing!
Dynamically muted compared to a good analogue vinyl but rough edge? Nope.
You know another one I like is this one by Ishizaka Kimiko. She made it a free download. I usually do not like Japanese or most Asian pianists but I found her surprisingly good.
Many thanks Kuma, I'll give her a listen. Re: Tharaud, he sounds vibrant on my system with plenty of texturing, so I hope they didn't mess up the transfer to vinyl. It would be shame if you didn't like the performance for the wrong reason.
EJ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UQyM9Bd6CU
Like Minds is a 1998 jazz album by vibraphonist Gary Burton with Chick Corea, Pat Metheny, Roy Haynes, and Dave Holland. The album won a Grammy Award in 1999 for Best Jazz Instrumental Performance, Individual or Group.
Fleetwood Mac
The Pious Bird Of Good Omen
I bought at the music store last Saturday a CD Box Set, including this one, without knowing RM had recorded blues before Rumours.
On the contrary, I quite like Tharaud's playing and certainly appreciated what he achieved here.
But I certainly do not hear his playing *rough* as you described earlier.
However, I think this might be a case that a better fidelity can be had via either a high res. download or CD than the vinyl because MPO QC isn't up to snuff. ( I am waiting for a replacement but not holding my breath to be sure ) FWIW, I can certainly separate performance vs. sonics. If a performance is not to my liking no matter how great the sound is, it's a no go for me. )
My pressing might be an isolated case. Let's see if Doug would chime in to see how his copy is.
re: Ishizaka's Goldberg
Nothing fancy but I like her honest and unadorned style which I think also valid way to go.
Originally Posted by George Fredrik Fiske:
Tatiana Nicholeaeva played a BBC Lunchtime concert at the Wigmore Hall in London a year or two before she recorded the Golbergs for Hyperion. In the concert she played every repeat.
I recorded this concert, which was scheduled to last an hour and half. I taped this concert on two sides of a TDK SA 90 and I was lucky to get the tape over fast enough not to cut any music. It was 88 minutes of music, but when she recorded it for Hyperion she played it without at least some of the repeats, and her performance comes out at 70 minutes I believe, This might just have fitted two side of an LP, which is how it was first issued. If you compare her Hyperion recording with Helmut Walcha, you might conclude that she is slightly faster. 70 minutes compared to 76 ...
In reality, her commercial recording is somewhat quicker than her concert performance was. But apart from some quite flowing tempi here and there - such as in the Aria - she is definitely taking tempi on the magisterial side!
But she plays so wonderfully that it certainly is not like a torture chamber. In fact in younger days I so liked the tape I made that I ruined it with use!
I've picked up her Bach CD a while back ( no Goldberg, however ) but haven't had a chance to listen. ( so many music, so little time ) 
I have listened to her Shosty's Preludes and Fugue and recall I was quite liking it.
I will get to her Bach at some point.
Streaming | WAV
Part two this morning from yet another excellent Tangerine Tree volume.
The Doors Box Set. On 4 CDs from 1997. Perhaps an "anthology-like" perspective into the Doors music including studio, demo and live recordings. The packaging and documentation is first-class but there is a random, incoherent feel to the overall musical product. Maybe that was the point.