Revealing system or deficient system?

Posted by: DrPo on 31 December 2014

hello to all and best wishes for the upcoming New Year.

 

advise needed on the following: I have several cases where my current set up produces unpleasant (read: at the verge of painful) sounds at higher frequencies, especially with headphone listening. Typical case is piano high frequency dynamic strokes. Two examples so as to be specific: Garson Trio Blues rehearsal version from HDT HRX hi res 2011 sample at the peak of the piano solo (4:13 - 4:15). Other example is playing Kenny Barton & Dave Holland "Rain" from the Art of Conversation album on Spotify Premium(320kbps) after 2:45 into the piece.

 

The reason I am puzzled and decided to post about it is because the same pieces have no such "painful sound" issue when I listen to them over my very simple office system (NAS -> laptop into Audio GD Dac/amp) with the same headphones (AKG 701). 

 

Possibility 1: the problem lies with the recording. My NAIM source is quite detailed whereas the AudioGD DAC is polishing and rounding the edges, thusly rolling over the problematic notes.

 

Possibility 2: the recordings are fine, the audioGD DAC amp has a "truthful representation" but something in my (much more expensive and painfully assembled together) main system is amiss.

 

thoughts really welcome!

 

 

Posted on: 31 December 2014 by dave4jazz

DrPo

 

I'm now playing "Rain" from "The Art of Conversation" album on Spotify Premium, no problem. I also have a Qobuz ALAC 16-bit CD Quality download of the same album. Again it plays fine on all my music systems (see my profile).

 

I don't think there is a problem with either the source recording or Spotify streaming. 

 

Of course there is the possibility you may have better hearing compared to me.

 

Dave

Posted on: 31 December 2014 by DrPo

 

thanks Dave. Just to clarify: with headphones? 

Posted on: 31 December 2014 by dave4jazz
Originally Posted by DrPo:

 thanks Dave. Just to clarify: with headphones? 

The same. No problem.

 

Dave

Posted on: 31 December 2014 by DrPo
Originally Posted by dave4jazz:
Originally Posted by DrPo:

 thanks Dave. Just to clarify: with headphones? 

The same. No problem.

 

Dave

I think I need to check the headphones as well then.... this will be possibility #3 in my list...

Posted on: 31 December 2014 by SongStream

I tried the "Rain" from "The Art of Conversation" track from Qobuz Lossless, and I would not say it was painful in any way, however, the recording of the piano is not the best I've heard by a long way. I would not adjust my own system to optimize it for a recording of this standard. This was with loudspeakers though. 

 

Posted on: 31 December 2014 by DrPo
Originally Posted by SongStream:

I tried the "Rain" from "The Art of Conversation" track from Qobuz Lossless, and I would not say it was painful in any way, however, the recording of the piano is not the best I've heard by a long way. I would not adjust my own system to optimize it for a recording of this standard. This was with loudspeakers though. 

 

Hi SongStream, indeed with loudspeakers it is noticeable just as a subperfect recording, it is only with the specific (quite revealing) headphones that it was really bothersome. Thanks for the feedback and the opinion shared!

Posted on: 31 December 2014 by dave4jazz

The issue of the quality of the piano recording on the album “The Art of Conversation” has also been discussed on another, recent, thread. According to the album notes Kenny Barron is playing on a Steinway & Sons piano. I know many jazz artists use Yamaha pianos which I believe have a slightly brighter sound. Is this a factor in the perceived sound quality? Anyway it's still a great album.

 

Dave

Posted on: 01 January 2015 by SongStream
Originally Posted by dave4jazz:

The issue of the quality of the piano recording on the album “The Art of Conversation” has also been discussed on another, recent, thread. According to the album notes Kenny Barron is playing on a Steinway & Sons piano. I know many jazz artists use Yamaha pianos which I believe have a slightly brighter sound. Is this a factor in the perceived sound quality? Anyway it's still a great album.

 

Dave

Interesting.  The 1992 CD from the below double offering allows the Steinway to give a slightly better account of itself in my view.  I have it on Blu-ray too, but, as usual, the CD sounds significantly better.

 

Posted on: 01 January 2015 by dave4jazz

SongStream

 

I'm not familiar with Tori Amos so my reference for acoustic piano recordings would be Keith Jarrett's ECM recordings (Steinway) or Chick Corea also on ECM, or his GRP and Stretch recordings where he is playing a Yamaha.

 

Dave

Posted on: 01 January 2015 by SongStream
Originally Posted by dave4jazz:

SongStream

 

I'm not familiar with Tori Amos so my reference for acoustic piano recordings would be Keith Jarrett's ECM recordings (Steinway) or Chick Corea also on ECM, or his GRP and Stretch recordings where he is playing a Yamaha.

 

Dave

Was the only thing I could think of where I knew for certain a Steinway was used. :-D  It's good stuff though.  Playing some Chick Corea now, an album called 'Three Quartets' from Stretch Records, and I have to say, it's making a pretty good noise.  The bass player is a lot less dominating in the mix than I find is usual with this type of thing, which is refreshing, and everything is pretty sweet.  Nice.

Posted on: 01 January 2015 by Bert Schurink

If you have issues it's normally with piano as the high end sometimes is not very well recorded and Naim can sound a bit harsh in th high regions. I know some piano albums which represent some level of challenge. But the specified albums don't represent a problem (while not being a prefect piano recording), and admitting I don't have headphones (in high resolution).

 

i personally think that the new cables of Naim (statement interconnects and speaker cables) will both improve on the high tones.

 

but as I didn't experience you might want to check your headphones.

Posted on: 01 January 2015 by DrPo
Originally Posted by Bert Schurink:

If you have issues it's normally with piano as the high end sometimes is not very well recorded and Naim can sound a bit harsh in th high regions. I know some piano albums which represent some level of challenge. But the specified albums don't represent a problem (while not being a prefect piano recording), and admitting I don't have headphones (in high resolution).

 

i personally think that the new cables of Naim (statement interconnects and speaker cables) will both improve on the high tones.

 

but as I didn't experience you might want to check your headphones.

Thanks all for the constructive dialogue. Having owned a Yamaha piano myself I can attest it tends to be bright but never had the privilege of hearing live (let alone playing on) a Steinway :-)