Controlling Qobuz

Well Qobuz has been around since 2007, so it is unlikely to disappear soon, but may get bought out...

As far as taking control, I have found the best  remote option for Qobuz is with Sonos. It acts as a good digital front end for Naim, and the Sonos app works on iOS, Android, Windows and OSX. you will need a Sonos Connect (ZP90) for this to work however.

Simon

Thanks Simon. I didn't know Qobuz had been around for that long so good news on that front.

The Sonos is more than I'd happily pay for a remote function. I will have to learn gratitude for the exercise in getting from my seat to change music 

I'm in the same boat but with a MU-SO. Works well with Airplay from a Mac using the Qobuz desktop or from the iPhone/iPad App. I would guess that an Airport Express connected to your streamer would be a viable £75 alternative. My understanding is that SQ would not be compromised for the streaming function but if purchasing better than Red Book quality an alternative method would be needed.

Hi, the Airport Extreme /,AirPlay from the Qobuz app (the new app seems to sound a little better on iOS ) is not bad, but falls quite a bit short if streaming lossless compared to using Qobuz Connect with a Sonos etc. This is where the device directly pulls the FLAC files back from Qobuz. This mode sounds more or less the same as a UPnP /DLNA setup which does the same thing but pulling the files from your local rips instead.

Simon

Agreed Simon.

I use an Apple TV for Qobuz (and Youtube). It is compromised for the reasons you state above. In addition, the ATV converts everything to 48kHz and I then have to send the I have to send the resulting signal down 5 metres of cheap optical cable. 

It it still sounds pretty good though - much better than Spotify directly from the NDS.

I am tempted by the Sonos option, but am put off by its SMPS and the possibility that Naim will wake up to the fact that their streamers need to stream over the net at CD quality if they want to stay in the race.

Keith

For remote control there is the possibility that the upcoming Qobuz Connect feature could provide a solution.  It is claimed this will allow the phone / i-things apps to connect with and control a wide range of other equipment on your network.  However, I fear the one thing it won't control is the desktop client running on a computer within your network, as unfortunately developers still seem to assume that if you're using a desktop client, then you must be sat at a desktop.  It's very frustrating, the PC/Mac being the technically superior and most versatile device of all, yet it's the one thing it seems you can't control from a phone.  It's ridiculous.  There are even kettles you can control from a phone.

On the SQ side, I would leave their own desktop client to do the work.  The sound components they have used are top notch, and pure, i.e bit perfect capable,  Said components are most commonly used by the gaming industry which necessitates extreme efficiency and low CPU overhead, an advantage here if you believe in RFI and PC electrical noise interfering with your audio quality.  

Keith I was, if am honest, a bit snooty about Sonos, but felt frustrated with the current Naim streaming service situation, there is increasingly a lot out there that is interesting musically that is in accessible to my Naim, so I bought one just before Christmas. I was suprised at the performance compared to other mass market digital source devices I have used in the past, SB3, AirportExpress, AppleTV etc. intriqued I searched the web, and found a Stereophile review of the Sonos Connect (ZP90) and perhaps that helped explain some of my satisfaction with the device.

Paul Stephenson has now given a commitment, albeit somewhat vague to streaming... but perhaps I detect Naim have had their fingers burnt with recent  firmware and app upgrades, and are now belt and bracing thier software development and QA. This is no bad thing, but it does raise the possibility that Naim have not got a very flexible platform to build upon, and that each service requires a fair amount of precious development time - or it could be Naim are needing to develop a more generalised service navigation architecture, no doubt with specialist web service development third parties, to support public network streaming services more generally. This would be a GOOD thing.

Simon

Yes, the concern remains that Naim's hardware and software is preventing them from developing a Linn-style streaming interface.

I may follow your (Simon's) example and buy a Sonos Connect. Is yours wired and does this impact sound quality or stability?

i was not aware that Qobuz are working on a Connect-style solution. That could speed Naim's development. I believe Paul Stevens has said that the ball is in Qubuz's court with regard to streamer integration. Perhaps this is what he means? Presumably, all the streaming services would benefit from Connect functionality? 

Keith

Keith, yes they are working on a full Connect style solution, it was in one of their recent press releases and referenced on their site. this feature will allow, if I understand it correctly, the Qobuz app to directly control streaming end points as with Spotify.

However Qobuz publish an API that has allowed developers to connect directly. But here the GUI and searching is under your own app control and not Qobuz. 

This is how Sonos for example works.

Perhaps because of limitations in the Naim streaming architecture/resources, it is that the full Connect option is required for services. This will be fine perhaps for the big names such as Qobuz, Spotify, Deezer, Tidal, but the small streaming services and the more 'creative' oriented ones that don't have the resources to manage a formal client  connect programme, such as SoundClud, shall remain inaccessible unless you use a 'Connect' type proxy such as Sonos.

intersting times.

If you are running Qobuz desktop on a pc that is connected to your Naim system (SU in my case) you can use any one of a number of Android apps that act as a wireless keyboard and mouse to control it. Works for me though not as good as being integrated in the Naim app like Spotify.

I'm sure there are Apple equivalents if you are that way inclined.

Pev, the current Naim Spotify implementation is not integrated with the Naim amp other than it supports the Spotify 'input'. The Naim app hands everything off to the Spotfy app.

Simon

Hi Simon, of course you are correct, I should have said that for me it's more convenient that I can access Spotify without firing up my pc. Having said that, I'm keeping my Qobuz subscription and letting my Spotify trial lapse as the Spotify lossy SQ just isn't good enough for serious listening.

Qobuz is still very usable from a pc.Looking forward to the time when lossless of whatever variety is as accessible as Spotify is now. It's already so much better to use than CDs though...

Pev, it is good isn't it. We have finally packed all the Christmas decorations away today (including attempting to replant the Christmas tree - but that's another story) and all those  twinkly lights and their cheap noisy SMPS are banished for another year, and the SQ has taken a step forward again... And Qobuz sounds even better via the Sonos into the Naim 

Can't work out whether to keep Spotify for the car... I suspect not especially as I have a free 12 month Deezer subscription to cater for my lossy needs. I notice Deezer search requests tend to come back quicker than Spotfy's as well... Probably due to less users on Deezer currently. 

KRM - So music streamed from Qobuz at CD quality over an Apple TV and cheap optical cable sounds much better than Spotify Connect direct to your NDS? Really?  Does anyone else feel the same?  If so, this has some very serious implications for Naim.  Why should anyone by an expensive Naim streamer when better sound and more music is available from an Apple TV, Sonos or Squeezebox using good dac?  

BTW, I recently started streaming music from Tidal using Sonos/W4S modification > DC1>V1 Dac, and have never heard better sound in my system!  

Perhaps KRM is feeding the Apple TV optical stream through his NDS DAC.

I think that this just shows how important is the quality of the source material and that a high quality player such as the NDS will highlight the difference between lossy and lossless music.

I agree with KRM, Qobuz FLAC lossless streamed via an AppleTV into a NDX sounds tighter,  cleaner, more detailed and tends to time better  especially with complex or busy music compared to an equivalent 320kbps Ogg Vorbis lossy stream directly into the NDX via the Spotify. But you are not realising the full benefit of Qobuz by doing this IMO, but it's a good halfway house.

Simon

It does pose questions doesn't it.  I would not question the abilities of NDX or NDS etc in terms of their analogue capabilities.  But what does a streamer really do beyond that?  Read a file and decode it, something a less than average PC/Mac will do without any issue at all.  I have often asked myself what a high-end streamer, beyond it's analogue stage, can really be doing to justify it's price tag.  Having spent the last year or more feeding a DAC-V1 from a dedicated to streaming PC, my conclusion is not very much.  

SongStream, what you are paying for with dedicated / specialised audio digital equipment is a low noise electrical envionment to operate a precision audio stream clock and careful design to minimise cross talk between functions like reclocking, transport stream decoding etc. With our current technology any wobble or noise (jitter) in that clock will, unless somehow eliminated, end up in the analogue signal one way or another.

I am not going to say that it  is worth £100, £1000 or £10,000 but it is what you are paying for and is distinct from a computer which doesn't need to do this. Of course you might decide that your off board DAC and supporting circuity is designed in such a way as to make this redundant - and only your ears can decide that.

Simon

Not quite equivalent, but Qobuz via Squeezebox Touch through NDS is way way better than Spotify Connect. 

Hmm, perhaps a Sonos is the way forward - I could be waiting a long time for Qobuz to finish their Connect product and for Naim to update their firmware to cope.

Does the Sonos need to be wired to the network to give of its best and is its SMPS a problem?

Hi Kendick, I think the others have answered your question.

Keith

I'm computer & network illiterate and could have integrated a Sonos Connect streaming Qobuz through the NDX:Hugo with my eyes shut - it's that simple.

No problems with the power supply that I can detect.

It sounds excellent.

G

Hi Graeme,

I know it's simple to set up. I'm just interested to know if I would need an extra run of ethernet across the living room door threshold to bet the best out of the Sonos?

Keith

I've decided to hard wire Keith as our wifi is overused by 3 kids streaming all sorts and it gives a more secure connection. Before that I had the occasional dropout.

G

Thanks Graeme

Keith,sorry for the tardy reply, but I hard wire with an ethernet lead. Interestingly that are two switched  ethernet ports on the Sonos Connect so you can daisy chain onto your Naim ND player if appropriate or necessary.

Simon