Qobuz & Sonos Connect

Unless there's something I don't know about the way the Sonos connects, I can't see why you'd need a second run of ethernet cable. Just put in a switch, and connect both your ND5 and the Sonos to that. 

No doubt if I did go down the Sonos route Mr Sod would ensure that Qobuz is integrated into a new Naim firmware update the very next day!!

You should definitely do it then, you'll make a lot of people happy! 

You don't need a switch as Sonos helpfully put a 2 port switch into the connect.

All you need to do is remove the ethernet cable from your ND5XS, plug it into the ethernet port of the Sonos and then add a short cable from the Sonos Connect to your ND5XS.

This is the arrangement I use and it works perfectly.

I use a Coax connection from the Sonos into my NDX and it works pretty well.  There is a loss of that star quality you get from the native streamer but it is perfectly adequate for most listening.

Richard

I am confused by this Richard.  I have 2 runs of ethernet running presently from my modem/router, one to the NDX and one to the Sonos Connect.

Are you saying I can get rid of one cable run and effectively bridge the ethernet connection from the Sonos to the NDX with a short ethernet cable from the Sonos to the NDX?

Thanks,

Graeme

Graeme

Yes you can.

Pictured below is the back of a Sonos Connect.  You will see that there are 2 connections for ethernet on the top left.  This allows you to take a single ethernet connection in to the Sonos, and then another out to the NDX.  This is what I do.

Richard

I think that "loss of star quality" you refer to would be a good reason not to for many. Particularly since the Sonos comes with both digital and analogue out. But I guess the more ways of doing it the merrier. 

Harry

I was referring to when used via digital out, it's the last few % of performance that seems to make all the difference, Simon described it recently as a bit monochrome if I recall correctly.

The analogue outputs are not for serious listening, any Naim system at any level will easily reveal the shortcomings of this output.

On the other hand, our Bose Lifestyle system in the conservatory does not show any limitation in the analogue output, presumably as the Bose has so many limitations of its own!

Richard

Got it. Thanks Richard. Useful to know.

Many thanks Richard.

G

I should add that the Ethernet ports are 'live' even if the Sonos Connect is working wirelessly.

This can be useful as you can use the Connect as a bridge.

I did this for some time until I installed a wired connection to the sitting room.  I connected the NDX to the Sonos and used the Sonos wireless network rather than having to enable the wireless on the NDX which degrades the sound quality slightly.

It works well for the smart TV up in the bedroom as well!

Richard

I'm agree with the OP.

I've run out of patience with the pace of Naim's software development and Sonos would seem to be the way forward.

The new Naim-Spotify Connect functionality is great and shows up the Apple TV as being flakey and a bit of pain. 

I'll be copying Simon-in-Suffolk's example and connecting the Sonos to the NDS via optical to listen to Qobuz. It will be easier, (hopefully) more robust and should sound better than Airplay + Apple TV.

If Naim prove me wrong I can always redeploy the Sonos in another room.

Keith

Interesting comments:

Richard, I did wonder if the two Ethernet inputs meant there was some kind of pass-through or switch - so really good to know that this is the case.

I do think the quality of the Qobuz Lossless streams has improved, but there is no doubt that a quality CD rip has the edge. I haven't tried downloading 16/44 files from Qobuz to make a comparison - I only tend to download higher resolution files.

Keith, I think you make a good point. If Naim do get their act together I can use the Sonos to replace my Apple TV which I use for music only on another system. It works ok with Spotify but is very prone to dropouts with Qobuz.

Cheers

Hugh

P.S. Does anyone else find it really annoying that when writing posts on this forum on an iPad it doesn't automatically give you a capital letter after a return!! (or an exclamation mark) though it does after a full stop. Or is my wife correct in her proposition that I'm just a grumpy old git!

Indeed I connect into my NDX - these allows my Naim app on the ipad to behave exactly the same way as for Spotfiy - but this time using Sonos. I can then switch between my sources on the NDX via the app.

The other thing is the NDX reclocks the Sonos signal. I have a modicum of success - but I get the biggest benefit chaining the Sonos Toslink output into a Monarchy Audio DIP reclocker - which then connect to the NDX BNC input.

Its still not perfect - as the SQ is not the same as locally streamed but its getting there.

I am seriously looking at higher quality digital front end bridges now - my appetite has been whet with public network streaming services with quality music reproduction .. and I have a nagging feeling that the Naim solution will be some way off.

Simon

Do you have anything in mind Simon, or are you just at the collecting information stage?

Bluesound? Simple Audio?

I wonder if these offer audible benefits over Sonos via their optical outputs, apart from their ability to stream 24 Bit.

Keith

The Bluesound Node sounds better, it's definitely a step up from the Sonos Connect. Having recently purchased a Sonos Connect, I'm guessing Simon may be looking for an even bigger step up. The Auralic Aries could be an option if this were the case.

To my ears I'm not convinced that the Simple Audio's Roomplayer+ is any better than a Sonos Connect. It has 24-bit support, but so does the Node and the Node sounds better, has better streaming service support, and a better mobile app. Like the Devialet Dialog, the Simple Audio options also include Powerline networking, which isn't encouraging.

Hi Greg,

So, the Node sounds better than the Sonos, even via the optical output?

How does the user interface compare and does it give a good solid connection to the likes of Qobuz? Oh, and does it support Soundcloud?

Keith

I personally thought the Roomplayer sounded better than the Sonos , however if you connect via CAT5 direct to your router rather than Powerline networking the box audibly ticks ! Plus unfortunately there will be no further software / firmware upgrades as Simple stopped trading at the end of 2014 .

The Bluesound is good but does not fit in to my Fraim !! 

I am at the info gathering stage, but the Auralic Aries (the premium spec version) does look rather interesting..

The Bluesound Node only has Toslink output (and is too large and ugly...) ...and I not sure it will be a significant improvement on the Sonos for standard lossless. The Sonos with a reclocker is very good... But I am looking for excellence and transparency (or as close as practical) to locally streamed content.

Simon

Hi Simon,

Would the Auralic replace the NDX?

Keith

Hmm... I could see logically how it could... But I am holding a candle still for Naim to sort out streaming services (lossless)... 

I am totally in the "gathering phase" as well Simon.  Frankly, I'm still struggling to understand the basics.  I've got a great DAC with high resolution support including DSD and my Sonos Connect is doing an admirable job of streaming Tidal at 44.1 and it sounds great.  I am using Coax SPDIF output. 

I'm not sure any streaming service offers much in the higher bit depth and sampling rates.  My initial thought was to use PC or MAC to download higher definition audio files and play them back with a direct connection to my DAC.  Is the streaming industry offering enough in "better than Redbook content" to be concerned about streaming losslessly? 

In my opinion it does sound better out of the box. But as Simon has subsequently pointed out reclocking the Sonos yields better results than a standard Connect, so making comparisons becomes a lot harder. It does support 24-bit, but as Simon also points out it's not the easiest box to fit in a conventional setup, so as always it's swings and roundabouts.  

Bluesound's app is pretty good, almost as good as Sonos's app. I used one for several hours with Qobuz and no dropouts, but thats more likely down to a solid internet connection than anything else. I don't think Soundcloud isn't supported, but they have stated they would like to.

I think for many of us it's a case of do we wait for Naim to release a product/service or jump ship to something already on the market. In many cases; mine included, we are hedging our bets with interim solutions like Sonos.

Purely personally, I'm interested in Tidal's hires MQA service, so I probably won't do anything concrete until it's out, can be tested, and we know which companies and devices will be able to support it.

I'm not aware of any commercial services offering 24-bit streaming at this time, so it's download only for the time being. I do exactly as you are thinking with a Mac Mini in to my DAC-V1 via USB, for my main collection of Redbook rips and 24-bit downloads. For everything else I use Sonos and for device to hi-fi I use Airsonos.

Hi Greg,

interesting stuff, thanks. It sounds like you are in the same place as me on this.

The irony of Naim's Spotify upgrade is that it makes the Apple TV setup seem a real pain, by comparison. Sonos via optical would be just like Spotify Connect, except that the Naim input won't automatically switch when you play from the Sonos app.

I don't want to spend too much and I still expect my local collection to be be my main source (plus vinyl). Also, Naim may yet surprise us. The trouble is, the pace of development in this market means Naim are falling further and further behind. They introduce Spotify when the rest have CD quality streaming, and Linn are already planning for hi res withTidal.

Keith

I really like Apple TV's for our ripped DVD's Bluerays and streamed content like movies and Netflix, but I've always felt the audio lacked something. I'm much happier with the Sonos Connect as my streaming solution now.

I wish Naim supported a direct connection to Spotify as well as Connect. Maybe in the future they will. I know many people will prefer the native Spotify app experience, but the Sonos direct connection approach is less hassle for us because their app does pretty much everything we need from a streaming app. Because the Sonos approach aggregates search results from all sources, online or local, my family find it easier to just use one app.