Thinking of abandoning Naim after 35 years

I understand the point you are making but Clive B has it right above - Naim were, and are, claiming to be producing streaming products for the future.

As I have already noted above, I believe Naim know what they are doing and I am not too worried that their current equipment will not be able to deal with the new streaming services. I just wish they'd come out and state that to remove any uncertainty. For instance, who'd buy an NDS at this precise moment in time without that reassurance?

Some of us never believed this in the first place. That does not make us particularly wise, but only slightly wiser than those who did.

ATB from George

If I could afford one I would in a heartbeat because it already does brilliantly what I would want it to do which is to play music from my nas.  This is what it is currently sold to do and it would fit my needs perfectly.  I'm not especially bothered about streaming from qobuz etc, I prefer to own the files and I only use spotify to test music before I buy. Equally the app is clunky and doesn't do some things I'd like it to do but it fulfills its primary purpose,  for me anyway,  which is to play my music.  It all depends what you want as a buyer at the time you buy. Future developments are nice for me but not essential if the device delivers what I bought It to do.  Others have different needs which include future development which is their right but its a risky strategy when spending on very expensive devices without knowing that those developments are possible and included in the price

School boy error, ha you guys...
When i get home and press play it will still be the best streaming device on the market today imho ( for music playback)my previous posts outlined our intentions to add more streaming services, with who and when are covered by nda agreements. Some of the players you see today may not even survive, it will be interesting to see where Apple and google go with services but in the meantime we are doing what we need to. We believe the connect route by spotify is the most satisfactory implementation and others will surely follow.

And there's the answer we all wanted... 

Thanks for taking time out of your break to put this one to rest - enjoy the Jamaican sunshine!

So there we go - the "connect route" it is. 

Clearly, some will be disappointed that they won't be fully integrating services. Paul will say it's the best way and the least compromised and others will suspect we has no choice due to decisions made in the past.

Either way, I'm ok with it, so long as it happens and happens soon. I like the Spotify Connect feature; I just don't like the sound quality. Qobuz have greatly improved their app in the last few weeks (in fact, it looks uncannily like nStream!). The main thing is that they find a way of making it sound good. The worry is that Naim's solution relies on either on someone else coping Spotify or Spotify introducing FLAC streaming. Fingers crossed!

Keith

If a higher quality 'Connect' approach is used for better quality streams then that sounds sensible to me. I like the Spotify service and if the hardware can deal with choice of multiple services then I'd expect no more at this stage.

I am sure software is being developed which would work over the top of all this to integrate various streaming data sources to allow the end users to assemble playlists as they wish.

Happy days - I'm looking forward to lossless streaming become available now :-)

"Some of the players you see today may not even survive"

I'm not 100% sure what Paul is implying here?

Hi Penarth,

I think Paul is explicitly excluding the integration of various streams. The connect approach means you use the app. for each service provider.

It also means that Naim is relying on providers developing connect functionality. If none do and if Spotify doesn't move to FLAC streaming then that's that.

Keith

I think he means some of the players in the industry may not survive - e.g. AFAIK Quobuz's financials aren't great.

All the players are losing money and he's implying that this is a problem.

Keith

KRM & Noogle...Thanks

Spotify CEO Daniel Ek has revealed that lossless music is on the agenda in discussions between the music streaming service and record labels concerning how the service can offer more to premium subscribers.
Read more at http://www.whathifi.com/news/s...#UYjH0tSWoBrf2ia5.99

Maybe Naim is onto something?

Have deleted my last post and edited it as above. Looked fine when I originally submitted from my laptop, but now that I look again on my iPad, it appears that I somehow posted all the text twice.

I have read this thread with great interest late last night. Although the OP focuses on the "front end app" topic the majority of the posts are on the touchy topic of integrating lossless services and the potential technical limitations of the current streamers to handle such requirements. My few deductions:

• NAIM, not being a primarily S/W company have some difficulty putting out the best app possible. 
• by the same token (which I have stressed in a similar thread) they cannot compete with e.g. SONOS in creating an "services hub shoe box". Hence I understand why they prefer to go the "connect route". Apparently this poses less demands on the development skills, does not detract them from their core business (e.g. Development remains a side competence and does not become a core business). As an once upon the time Integration consultant I have been preaching the merits of Module View Controller design so as to reuse existing applications so I cannot fault NAIM for that choice.
• that being said I still don't see Paul explicitly addressing Allen's question on the alleged memory limitation as a potential limiting factor. This has nothing to do with NDAs and I too would have preferred a direct answer. I would not ditch my NDX even if that were the case (I might in fact get my chance at the NDS of someone that does:-)) but I deserve to know the truth.

The disadvantage of the 'Connect' route is that it is ultimately limiting IMO ... as many / most? services will see it as a legacy approach and opt for a more open web services integration. Further I think the software development cycle will be more challenging, not a great strategy for Naim, as the service engine will need to developed and tested for each network device. A common hub/integrator will act as a service manager and simplify service integration and development.. Certainly more ideal where services might come and go as implied. This approach is one I use in my day job for web service integration... It's a lot more efficient and easier to develop and integration test than a distributed service connectivity model. 

But so be it, we have now heard from Paul  that the bespoke service queue list  pull method , or 'Connect' model is the way forward cor Naim.. Ok it will be nice for Naim to demonstrate this by introducing some new service connectivity .. I just hope it's not too restrictive and limiting or complex to deliver resulting in lengthy delays.

Simon

Allen I suspect Naim and streaming services will not, with the currently stated strategy from Paul, be good bed fellows.

I think for general web services streaming, for those who want to enjoy that format, the best way forward would appear to be to use a non Naim solution which of course you can connect to your Naim amplification etc..

Those SPDIF inputs and analogue NAC inputs are there for a reason 

Simon

Presumably, multiple connect splutions would only impact memory if you listened to more than one at a time, which wound sound terrible?

Keith

When N manufacturers (Naim, Linn, Pioneer, Sony, etc etc) need to support M streaming providers (Tidal, Spotify, Qobuz, Deezer, Simfy etc etc) this is bound to lead to absolute chaos for the consumer. 

There needs to be a streaming standard across providers.

Also, Paul's best bet, currently, is Qobuz, yet he mentions Apple and Google, so he seems to be thinking about multiple connections.

And, he has effectively told us that the Muso will follow the same path, assuming to too complies with Naim's preferred strategy.

Keith

There is a standard that they all use.. It's the web services interfaces using W3C  using SOAP and HTTP. Long gone of the days of bespoke coded interfaces.. We are talking implemenrtation now, and each service will have its differentiation and preferred way of doing things using the standardised interfaces. But most music streaming services appear quite similar, such is the way of web service integration today.

Simon

Hi Allen,

I have been following the Naim model when updating my iPad of late, due to memory issues (ie downloading on the Mac). It doesn't mean I can't have multiple apps open On the iPad.

I understand and agree with most if not all of what you say. However, neither of us know if the streamers have  enough memory for multiple connects. I suspect this is an issue for streamer integration, though.

Keit

Allen, or develop niche followings or musician archives.. Just look at SoundCloud for example which I think I am right launched some time before  Spotify . Music doesn't have to be all about big labels thank God..