Thinking of abandoning Naim after 35 years

I don't get the complaints either. My friends come over and we pass the iPhone around in my listening room and take turns selecting tracks to listen to on my NDX. It takes me about 6 seconds to teach them how it works. I recently added a Muso to our kitchen... I told my wife to download the Naim app and she managed to figure out the interface and even though she didn't know what a "UPNP" was, once she selected that option and my music collection appeared she figured it out. I come home from work daily and my 12 year old is doing her homework, rocking out to spotify or sending music via Airplay to the Muso. Without any direction from me whatsoever.

On the rare occasions when one piece isn't talking to the other, a restart of my modem or the UPNP server on my mac fixes the issue.

And if you don't like the "labels' the software assigns to the various inputs (UPNP etc.).... just rename them.

I have enjoyed multi-zone Hi-Fi for nearly 20 years.  Now that the Naim app allows me to control my Naim CD player from my iPad, anywhere in the house, it is nothing but pure icing.

I did prefer the old nStream UI, though.

Nick

I don't want this to be a "me too" post but I find it equally frustrating with streaming my NDX via the app. In recent weeks, I have gone back to operating the buttons on the player as I find it counter productive to use the app (it often hangs and I have to restart).

I don't understand the fuss about the app. It's an optional extra that is dependent on third parties. If it doesn't work then don't use it. I don't have any problems with random play because I have two random playlists that get updated roughly once a day. The front panel buttons work perfectly and if I want to use an app I use Audio Station from Synology. (I would say that I use Media Monkey - easily my preferred choice - but it is flaky so I don't use it much)

To me the current app is ok.. Yes perhaps not the best and a bit over stylised and perhaps inefficient in its use of the ipad screen in play mode.. But it works fine for me and my son. My wife and daughter never touch it.

however the big usability hitch for us at s-in-s towers at present is the current streamer firmware bug where play cuts on the SPDIF feed after an album completes.. and a few choice commands then need pressing to resume replay.. hopefully this shall be fixed shortly in the anticipated firmware upgrade.

Simon

Bananahead, if you do not care about the way you interact with your system -- browse your music collection, search it, select what to play, play it, open the booklet on your iCrap, etc. -- then there is indeed very little to understand. On the other hand, if you care about these things, then there is much to complain, as it seems.

Naim has a very simple means of correcting this state of things: they should open the source of the app (which, anyway, generates no revenues) to the community. Developers would then be in the position of making their own branches, fixing bugs, implementing improvements. Naim could then take advantage of their work and integrate the most successful developments in their official app.

I have to agree with Bart here. If the time spent moaning was invested in setting things up properly, 99% of the issues would very likely go away. Even my wife can use our system quite happily. She can find songs, listen to the radio and find podcasts. It's just amazing. How can a woman possibly achieve this? 

I tried the Kinksy app last night, I suggest everyone else does too because I guarantee that you will love the Naim app afterwards

If your media is on a computer or NAS, try an alternative like JRiver Media Cent(er) in conjunction with the JRemote app on the iPad. At various times, I use either this, N-Stream (on my old iPod) or the Naim app for media stored on my U-Serve. As far as the Naim software goes, I don't suffer from many of the issues that appear on vaiuos threads on the forum so either I am very lucky, or I must be doing something unknowingly right. Other than the "would be nice to have" functionality features, which will no doubt come in the fullness of time, I think things work quite well across my three systems.  

That sounds way too sensible. I do hope a third party comes up with something at some point. Doesn't seem particularly likely as things stand.

What a strange post.

Clearly I care about all of the control things that you mention. I have just found a solution that works for me.

I don't see any reason for Naim to make its software open source. What I do see is a need for industry wide APIs to enable third party applications to be able to control any product.

Both of my streaming solutions have been almost perfect ( Naim NDX at 99.99% - two lockups in the last 12 months. Arcam AV thing 95% - random loss of input needing restart ) and the only real complaint is with third party applications ( Synology Server and app 100%. Minimserver 95% - seems to sometimes stop. dBpoweramp 100%. MediaMonkey 95% - application itself 100% but as a control point it is flaky).

I don't use the Naim app for three reasons. When I have used it I have never thought that it provides anything that I don't already have. And I won't buy an iCrap (did think about an android but it would only be a remote control). And it only controls Naim things but I have two streaming solutions.

I'm not saying that A control app is an optional extra, just that THE Naim app is. There are other choices.

( having said that, I manage just fine with the front panel most of the time. I very often want to play new music and I have a couple of playlists that give direct access to that. One is in strict sequential order and the second is a random selection of 99 tracks modified in the last 60 days. If I want specific albums then I tend to use Synology Audio Station that works fine)

I have an intense feeling of deja vu when reading this thread and I can safely predict that it will run to many pages that will look remarkably similar to all those threads that preceded it

I think I was hinting at this in my advice on the other thread that it might be worth trying Kinsky as an alternative to nStream.

I tried Kinksy on my laptop, the windows version doesn't work with the ND5 XS It'll only ever play one track and then stop.

I believe it may send a 'Stop' command after each track, and on the ND5 XS this stops playback, preventing playback of the next track.

I'll believe that the app is an issue serious enough to abandon streaming and Naim when it becomes commonplace for CD systems to have an easy interface that automatically selects loads and plays the CD that you want, without this costing significantly more than the basic player.

Until then, there is a remote, very similar to the one you use for CD.

With what will you replace it ?

Exactly

They also want us to use their interconnects.

I believe that some people are using DACs from other manufacturers. I don't think that Naim want this.

+1 - I frequently use the ndx front panel or remote i.e. if the ipad is in another room or being used. Still much easier than CD. 

Actually in this context I agree it does seem strange when there have been more vocal requests and subjectively more impacting issues to many forum members.

There is also no sticky on the SPDIF lock up / drop out bug introduced in the last streamer firmware update either which I find strange, albeit there is a sticky outlining the differing volume levels between ACC and MPEG2 DVB audio when the Muso is used as a TV sound bar.

Simon

It’s time to stick my head over the parapet on this one, but first a little background.

I’ve enjoyed the Naim sound for nearly 30 years starting with an original Nait back in the eighties.

Got into streaming 3 years ago with the purchase of a Squeezebox Touch feeding the Nait and loved the ease of use, the number of sources you can access, it’s reliability, the fact that SWMBO can use it without difficulty. The bug bit again so I decided to purchase a used Unitiqute and was not disappointed with the SQ or build quality but it was more demanding of network infrastructure and I tread the well worn path of installing a switch and wired connection to overcome dropouts/buffer issues and with no Android control app I eventually succumbed and purchased an iPod Touch to use n Stream. The Squeezebox Touch remained in the set-up for others to use (and also for synced playback to the radio in the kitchen) so I had 2 parallel ways to access digital media. Firstly the Naim uPnP and secondly the Squeezebox set up. I tended to use the uPnP route via Assett or Minimserver for album playback and switched over to the SBT into S/PDIF for radio , Spotify and Qobuz. My personal user experience was that Squeezebox control using Orange Squeeze on Android or iPeng on IoS is just more flexible and less hassle to use than the N Stream app so I tended to use that option more than the pure uPnP route. However when it came to serious album listening my preference SQ wise was for direct uPnP playback.

For a while I also used the PC capture facility of Asset (and also Jamcast) to feed the Squeezelite player on the PC into the Naim. This worked OK but the time delay in response and a nagging sense that SQ wasn’t all it should be left me wanting more. What I really wanted was to use the Squeezebox server and control front end, direct into the Naim uPnP without the use of an additional device in the middle.

In the meantime I upgraded to a Uniti2, so my commitment and love of the Naim sound is not under question!

Other clearly wanted similar and my expectations were raised in Autumn when a thread opened up on the Squeezebox forum concerning an app to bridge the Squeezebox world and uPnP world.

The app is still in development but I’ve been using it since the end of November and, although not perfect, it does allow me to stream Qobuz, Tidal, Spotify, and all the other Squeeze services directly to the Naim. For control I use either iPeng or Orange Squeeze , depending on which device is to hand, and use the Naim remote to control the volume and mute.

For me this works and I’m very happy and willing to accept that it’s not perfect but the plus points outweigh the negative points by a long way.

I realise that I’ve had 3 years to develop my Squeeze set-up and know-how but if others are in a similar position I strongly suggest that you give Squeeze2upnp  a try.

Allen is All-In

For me, the latest v4 n-Stream app is a retrograde step in terms of functionality. It is not as intuitive to get to grips with as the previous version, or for that matter other music app platforms, e.g. iTunes, Sonos.

The biggest issue for me is the unpredictable way in which playlists are populated. The wife almost through the iPad through the window the last time she wanted to create a dinner party playlist. None of these problems existed when using the previous version and could have been easily resolved with a larger sample of beta-testers, and she is an adept user of iPods, iPads and computers.

All a shame as the hardware is fabulous.

I am already decided. The very least Naim could have done is Tidal.. if they can do spotify then Tidal, i believe is dooable, But no they concentrate on the Muso and the Statement hardware... and virtually ignore the many people in between with many thousands of pounds and years of investment in Naim equipment. i mean Spotify is ok for a party SQ wise, and try before you buy... but thats it. I am ready to upgrade but it wont be to a NDX or HDX My Naim streamer goes next week. Replacement ordered from across the border

Och aye the noo

regards

Ingenius