Thinking of abandoning Naim after 35 years

I've been watching this thread with interest as both camps have stated their cases.

It is indeed a very emotive subject it seems!

There is plenty of valid reasoning on both sides.

To me, it seems that Sonos's app is the benchmark that others aspire to, and the Naim app isn't at that level yet from either a useability or functionality point of view.

But in my opinion, and I know there are a number on here that disagree, I prefer the Naim app to nStream, and feel that the development guys have listened to comments and adjusted accordingly.

Sure, there is some way to got get to the benchmark, but I find it easy to use and it rarely crashes.

It could be more intuitive, but compared to some other apps I have on my iDevices, the Naim app is far from a bad app (again, IMO)

The one comment made is that the app doesn't allow searching across all services and all libraries.

In my case it actually does go half way there.

As a Unitiserve owner, the Unitiserve aggregates all of the music on my network and presents it through Naim app.

So I can choose how I search, either via US alone, or (in my case) NAS & US, which is great and was another reason why I went for the US several years ago.

Being able to also search through Spotify (and Tidal, Qobuz, etc when / if they eventually come on stream with Naim streamers) would then bring the search functionality up to the benchmark level.

Im absolutely sure the Naim guys are listening (and reading this thread) and have no doubt the app will be further developed and improved.

It will even then still not please all the people all of the time, I hope that those guys about to ship out can be won over before that point is reached, though if the app isn't liked at the moment it's unlikely someones mindset can be changed in the short term, whatever Naim do I suspect.

Compare that to my experience (on Android), in which the app constantly crashes, hangs, thinks there is another control app running, and so on.  Put a track on, put the phone down, then pick it up a couple of minutes later to change volume, check the name of the song playing, that sort of thing?  Almost invariably takes about a minute as the app has to be restarted, complete a new handshake etc.  It's often not possible to find out what song is playing on internet radio stations because they've finished by the time I can get the now playing screen to show.

I'm no SiS, but I'm very tech literate, and this is in the context of a network setup which works absolutely fine with everything else I own, including my very-much-current-model phone.  I don't say this to make a big point in the debate that's going on here, rather I just want to point out that not everyone's experience of the software is as smooth as yours or e.g. mackb3's above.

That does sound like a completely frustrating experience, Dave***t.

Would there be any point in raising this with Naim Support maybe?

Im not suggesting they could solve the problem, but at least it could be logged

And investigated and fed into the pot in future development.

Android suffers from 'Java Syndrome'

Write Once - Test Everywhere - Re-write Most

In other words to make it work reliably on every available device, you have to test it on every device.  Not even Google have the resources to do that for every piece of software they write (mostly they delegate quite a bit to the device manufacturers).  In fact were to ask that of their developers, the app couldn't be given away for free, the cost would be horrendous.

iOS should be better as Apple have full control (it's locked down and you'd better not try to get more access than Apple wants you to have), but Apple have a history of less than convincing record on backward compatibility.

Together with the expectation of cheap (or even free) software, this isn't a recipe for reliability.  Praise those few who achieve it despite the situation forced on them, rather than knock those make valiant efforts with a few flaws appearing in use.

They've managed to get most of the bugs out of the system. But not all. Features which existed in nStream, pretty basic stuff like a universally accessible volume control and being able to see the battery life and WiFi signal strength are still unavailable. It's going backwards. The app looks half finished. You can't vary the browsing font size and the settings menu has visual inconsistencies.

I don't doubt for a microsecond that the talented and hard working developers are sweating blood  but it looks for all the world like something which isn't considered important and doesn't benefit from sufficient resources. And it's taking for ever.

It's a shame Sonos don't provide a Connect 'module' to allow 3rd party manufacturers to integrate a Sonos solution into their products at manufacture. I know there have been half way houses such as the Peachtree amp that allowed a Sonos Connect to be located inside a compartment in the amp but you are still left with the Sonos PSU, digital and analogue stages. 

It would give you the great Sonos UI and allow the audio manufacturers to develop solutions to make the most of the module. Naim analogue and digital engineering getting the best out of the Connect 'module' could be quite interesting. 

In the UK App Store the Naim app has been rated by 20 people with an average of 2/5. The Sonos Controller has 1621 ratings with an average score of 4.5/5.

Irrespective of your position on this thread it's clear Naim has work to do.

A nice feature of the uServe and one that's often overlooked.

I do scratch my head over some of the comments about the Naim App, but in the course of doing that realized that much of the experience might depend on the comparators.  I entered the home server music world to avoid dealing with cd clutter and avoid having to file them in a way such that I can find what I need (in dim light with farsightedness). 

So I compare my use of the Naim App to cd reply.  I play music pretty much like I played lp's and then cd's.  I "put on an album."  I might end it before it ends . . . I might flit around a bit . . . but I did that playing LP's too.  It's just easier now.  I don't do playlists . . . don't do "random play" . . . don't do internet radio . . . don't particularly find value in Spotify.  Maybe if I approached music replay other than as an analog of lp/cd replay I'd be less happy??

You tend to hear more from whingers than from happy customers.

Well....sonos would have the same issue.  So it seems equal.   Honestly, the Naim ap is ridiculously bad.....but it is still usable and other stuff is good

This thread has gone seriously off topic as usual, the hijacking is a real joke

regards

ingenius

You are off topic and looking at your profile should clearly know better Mr Ingenius. Peter

It's worth pointing out that the most recent version of the Sonos control app was previewed for Android first, rather than iOS, and that the CR100 and CR200 controllers were developed as functional tablet-based interfaces long before any of their apps made it into the marketplace....

Yes, this thread is more of a Naim bashing than anything else

If Naim would have integrated Tidal as single streaming service as Linn has done, people would complain Spotify is missing.

I think there are many happy streaming lovers with the Naim solution, but as usual the ones not happy cry out loudest

I am not sure. There are are always quite vociferous happy customers as well. Otherwise it would be hard to explain an average score of 4.5/5, I guess. 

My profile reveals nothing other than I have been a hi fi lover and owner for many years, hate mountains on my mountain bike, love music and am a musician . To embellish , i was trained to grade 8 piano, teach for free ,love playing bass and up until last played as a very successful Sessionist.

my full time occupation restricts my musical one on a financail balance though��

i do like to stir the hornets nest now and again... So ..... You got me ��������

regards

ingenius

Mr Ingenius.

You have spurred me on to go completely off-topic......again!

In my early twenties I trained at The Dental University of Copenhagen. In my year we had a guy called Niels H, who was built like a rugby player 6 foot 5. We as a group did a lot of extra curricular sports and as Danes are renowned for sharing nudity showering etc, we all knew that something else was huge! But read on my friend; when we had social evening gatherings very often than not influenced by a slight amount of alcohol AND the subject discussed became appropiate, Niels would non- plussed say: " Yes, I know it is not long, but at least it is..........thin!! 

Sadly, even writing this now I can still giggle, just as in them happy days !  Smiling is good Peter

Peter,

It sounds like you had a little too much red grape juice with that steak tonight. 

The final Android and iOS versions were available at the same. There was a public preview that was Android only because Apple doesn't directly support previews/betas. If you were a member of the Sonos beta program you got the preview at the same time irrespective of whether you use Android or iOS.

You make a great point about the CR100/200 David. Sonos has been in the business of developing user based interfaces and workflows for 15+ years. Sonos are in such a competitive segment that I am in no doubt that an average 2/5 ratting for its app would seriously hit it's top line.

Whilst no one would deny there are problems,  there is some truth in this, it would have been badly implemented, or it should have been qobuz, or both, or the volume control is in the wrong place,  or it should be capable of making playlists from multiple sources etc etc. Its unlikely that they will ever make everyone happy at the same time but that's human nature and if you've spent a lot of money on a product you're entitled to express a view.  To my mind Naim could vastly improve matters by communicating more openly and by publishing a general road map of their intentions on streaming in so far as they can without compromising commercial confidentiality.  At the very least they should string things along for a year or two so that I can save enough money to take advantage when Allen and others finally lose patience and hit the auction sitesc

My apologies J.N. - Thanks for your excellent post.

Priceless Peter,

Thank you ...a man after my own heart, this forum does need a bit of a humour injection now and again... Keep it up sir ����������

regards

ingenius

Simon, you did a better job than I in making my point. UPnP connect makes adding new elements of a system easy for someone like me who is at a complete loss of what to do next when presented with a "C prompt."  Once connected however, the operation of the device can be dramatically different.  

I love my SONOS but even it is not completely intuitive, which is what I think some users expect from every device nowadays. 

Sitting here listening to my new Naim, I am constantly surprised at the SQ and detail presented. Given a choice between better SQ or a completely intuitive user interface, I'll choose the former any day.   

it's unrealistic to expect Naim, or anyone else for that matter, to get everything right. 

Thanks for the additional clarification. 

You are welcome. 

My view is that when you pay a premium for your hifi which like it or not with Naim appears to be marketed as a highly stylised desirable quality consumer item... Just look at the main web site..  then I expect usability to go along with my SQ, and it's fair to say, usability and interoperability is good  on most of the Naim portfolio.

However it would appear the growing software / IT side of things where some struggle and perhaps Naim are still finding their way.

Allen, I have been part of the beta group before, but in my experience the group is set up a fresh for each major software release.

i missed out on the last beta, as it was full up by the time I sent my request in... which is fustrating as I no doubt would have flagged up the SPDIF bug that we are still awaiting a patch for.

Simon