J River feeding a Hugo

Not quite, but why do you ask?

Originally posted by Dayjay:

"Is anyone using J River, or anthing similar on a PC, to feed a Hugo via UsB?"

David,

I did briefly use J River on a laptop to play DSD files through my Hugo via USB. It worked very well - or at least the sound quality was absolutely fantastic. However, my copy of J River was an evaluation copy which has now expired.

I decided not to get a fully licensed version for 2 reasons - A) I consider the cost of DSD albums to be prohibitively expensive, and B) I am perfectly happy with uPnP via my streamers for all FLAC based files.

I didn't really use J River enough (or in a complex enough way) to be able to evaluate the software itself, but it worked and sounded pretty good to me. 

Possibly to reduce the replay chain (obviate the need for a streamer) or to take advantage of JRiver's ability to stream DSD over PCM direct to the Hugo?

I have used JRiver to stream DSD ISOs which it streamed as 174kHz/24 bit LPCM to my old ND5XS but felt that the ISO files were too large especially if they included a MCH layer.

I have a Windows server within usb reach of my Hugo and was wondering how well J River would work if I bypassed my qute. Idle curiosity really because I do like the convenience of the streamer and plan to exchange the qute for a higher level Naim at some point but it would free up funds to spend on other components if the sq was of a very high level I suppose.  I don't use dsd files. The mac hugo route made me wonder too I guess and I already have the server

Dayjay posted:

."... but it would free up funds to spend on other components if the sq was of a very high level I suppose.  I don't use dsd files".

David,

If you are happy to lose some of the convenience of your streamer, then my recollection is that FLAC files played by J River over the Hugo via USB sounded equally as good as the equivalent files streamed over uPnP. J River doesn't cost a lot, so it won't hurt too much to try it out.

I may experiment more with DSD in the future, because the SQ of the files I tried was exceptionally good. If the cost of DSD files comes down, I will definitely pursue this option,  but for the time being Iwill retain my Linn and Naim streamers. 

I may download the evaluation version out of interest and see how it works with the tablet as a remote, thanks for the response

I have been using JRiver 19 on my macs for the last 18 months.  It really is a great solution.  Occasionally, I move the Hugo to my bedroom and use it with My HD800's via USB from a Macbook Pro.  An absolute pleasure to my ears.  Im actually considering a second Hugo....  but that seems crazy.

Out of curiosity I drove my Hugo via USB from MBP running JRiver. It worked very well, but I prefer not to use visible computers in my main music replay chain.

Simon

yes that's exactly how I used my Hugo for a while.

JRiver with JRemote is an excellent solution in itself but the bigger issue is the PC.

I was using a basic fanless PC running Linux and found the SQ ultimately disappointing.  Best guess is that the USB output was pretty dirty and the Hugo isn't isolated.

I imagine that it's only going to work well with a customised audio PC with dedicated SPdif or USB audio cards .

I changed to a Bryston BDP (which is in effect a customised audio PC) and the combination with the Hugo is very special indeed.

I use JRiver with my Hugo, controlled by JRemote on my iPad. imo the freedom and power JRiver gives you to construct your own views and browse your music is second to none, and JRemote is an absolutely superb control point. I have a modest pc to which I fitted an SSD. Rob Watt has indeed said that the USB input benefits from galvanic isolation - I've tried both the Olimex isolator on the SD inout and an iFi Audio iUSB on the HD input. Both add smoothness, I've ended up using the iUSB and HD probably for the convenience of playing hi res. Of course the new TT and 2Qute have isolated USB inputs and I believe Rob has said that for these USB is now the best sounding input. JRiver is free for 30 days, it's a big product with lots of features so you need to be a little patient in getting to grips with it. Their forum is superb, a developer or guru will usually answer you within a day. Lots of solutions now for small quiet fanless PCs for small hundreds - and the flexibility a pc gives you is unmatched by any streamer. You want Tidal, Quobuz, Spotify, whatever Apple come up with .. you've got it! JRiver have also packaged the audio bit of their player as a Windows driver so you can direct all the output from your PC through it.

I couldn't agree more with likesmusic's post, sums things up very nicely in my view.  I am relieved that I got into whole streaming thing at a time when the versatility of a computer based streamer can be used in a high-end system to good effect.  The results in terms of SQ possible by combining a PC for a couple of hundred quid with something like the DAC-V1, or the 2Qute, was a massive eye-opener for me.  Had I discovered that after buying something along the lines of an NDX, I would feel a bit sore. 

Very interesting.  I've been in touch with Chord re using their driver on a server and its not something they have done before and therefore can't guarantee it will work, and I wouldalso not have soome of the advantages covered on the two posts above with other streaming sources as, again I'm using a server rather than a standard PC, but for the sake of an hour or two its probably worth having a play around to satisfy my curiosity when I get a little time. Thanks for the responses

dayjay, I'm not sure JRMC will actually run on a server, you might want to check on their forum. If not, something like an ASUS Transformerbook would make a good platform for JRMC - it could access the music on your server, and it looks like a nice, small, fanless, inexpensive Windows 8 machine.

It will run on a server but I believe that Hugo needs its drivers installed to work withsa pc and I'm not sure if this will work yet. I'm just curious to see if the server, which I already have close by with all my music on it can do a job. At the moment my qute streams into my hugo which works just fine but I would like to know if it will work and what it woulf sound like

ok.. well just get downloading! Happy to help with any configuration stuff if you get stuck. There's no problems using the Hugo ASIO driver btw. One thing worth noting is that JRiver gives you the option of storing and updating tags in your media, or just in its own database. The latter option can be useful when you are messing about - you can very very quickly update add and change tags to your hearts content without them getting written back to your media files. If you have any kind of smartphone or tablet I'd also recommend trying a remote app - JRemote does the business for iThings, Gizmo for Android.

Ok, I have the playing now from my server to my Hugo controlled via my tablet and its very impressive.  SQ is nowhere near as good as my qute 2 playing through Hugo but I am using a cheap usb cable and it still sounds pretty good. I like the control point so far which seems pretty quick. Had some stuttering playing 24 bit but it was still importing data which may have an impact.  Will continue to play

Oh dear, I have it playing bit perfect and from memory rather than direct from the server hard drive and there is really not a great deal of difference between that and my qute streaming.  I'll have to do some serious listening but if a high quality USB cable and some form of filter for the USB made much difference this would be very interesting. Not sure I should have done this now!

Hm, but it does introduce lots of noise into the system, and when I unplug the Qute I get a nasty ground problem which gives me a lovely loud buzz.  Interesting experiment though

Just curious, but what type of noise are you experiencing, discounting the ground buzzing.  I ask because I did a much crazier experiment once, with a high-end (relatively speaking) PCI soundcard with on board DAC inside my media PC, and had this connected via analogue RCAs directly to the amp.  The results were quite surprising in that the clarity and detail was pretty good.  As one might expect though, there was evidence of just how electronically hostile the inside of a PC really is.  It was very faint, but with volume whacked up to a listenable, but enthusiastic level, and nothing actually playing, even from 3-4 metres away you could just hear a high pitched kind of digital tweeting from the speakers; a bit like when a mobile phone is about to ring and it's near something vulnerable, but much fainter.  I had wondered whether a similar magnitude of problem could occur through USB with a DAC if not electronically isolated.   I would imagine the effect should be vastly reduced, as unlike in the experiment above there no analogue components trapped in the noisy box, so wondered if this overly long and poorly explained sound card symptom is similar to what you have experienced?  My current DAC-V1 is thankfully deadly silent via USB (apart from the music obviously).

dayjay - re buzzing - fwiw my system is pretty close to silent at full volume just using Chords own USB lead. You might want to look at an Olimex USB isolator to help with noise - Mr Watts himself says he prefers the sound with one - without he could tell the difference between pcs! As I said earlier, I've found the iFi audio iUSB to offer  worthwhile isolation, and it gives you hires. It does clever things with earthing and noise I believe. 

Main problem was a lack of earth into the SN2 with the Qute unplugged which I have now resolved.   There is some noise being fed from the PC's usb which is audible through the speakers - although its not load it will clearly affect sq.  The difference between the PC and the Qute is marginal and, if anything, I would say the PC is slightly more open and transparent but lacks a little base body compared to the qute.  Given that I'm using a £2 usb cable and no filter I have to say I am pretty amazed.  ILikesmusic, I'd be interested in knowing what difference the filter you are using made when you connected it and what usb cables you are using?

Interested in your experience with the iUSB, I understood its purpose was to provide a clean power supply to USB powered devices,but the Hugo has it's own power.  An ifi dealer told me there was no benefit in using it on self powered units

The iUSB also breaks the DC ground connection between your pc and the Hugo, and cleans up the USB signal (so it says!). True, Rob Watts recommended an Olimex USB isolator - trouble with that is it won't do hi-res. I happened to have an iUSB anyway, initially I used it just for hi-res on the HD input and an Olimex for redbook on the SD input - found I couldn't be bothered switching, couldn't hear much of a difference, so just stick with the HD input and the iUSB. The new TT and 2Quote make all this fankle redundant as both have galvanically isolated USB inputs, I may well give the TT a try. Then again, there's the new QBD ... My pc seems to have nice quiet USB outputs in any case - like I said, full volume no noises.

Can I ask what USB cables you are using?