Streaming internet radio from NAS to ND5XS

Posted by: Gajdzin on 14 February 2015

My ND5XS is a great for playing CDs from NAS, but useless as Internet Radio, because most of my favorite stations won't play on it (runs out of memory every few seconds, esp. on a Greek classical music station 'Audiophile Baroque', while my low-end laptop or even an old iPhone plays that station with no breaks).

 

So I was looking for ways around it and some users suggested streaming the radio station from NAS to ND5XS. There's a M3U file kindly posted by Laxton Yeo HERE. I copied the contents into a new *.m3u file and put it in the Music share on my NAS. Now if I open the Synology Media Server or the MinimServer from the Naim App on my iPad and go to "Playlists", I can see the new file. However, when I open it, it's empty.

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

Many thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Gajdzin
Originally Posted by Bananahead:

This got me playing.

 

I created a new m3u file and put in a list of stations.

 

If I use Synology Media Server then it appears empty.

 

If I use Minimserver then I get a list of stations. None of them play though.

 

Please can you paste the two lines for your station so that I can try that.

OK, now we are on the right track! In my case using BOTH Synology and Minim I get an empty list.

 

Based on what I've read on Mimimserver forum, try 2 things:

1. "Compatibility Mode" in Naim app

2. Make sure your URLs are correct and e.g. don't contain "..."

 

My m3u file is the one I got from a user on this forum, here: https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...16#41551093747083916

 

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Bananahead

Have you updated minimsteamer to the latest release?

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Bananahead

I added the lines for Radio Paradise and that works just fine. 

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Gajdzin
Originally Posted by Bananahead:

Have you updated minimsteamer to the latest release?

I don't have MinimStreamer, this is the first time I hear about it. I have MinimServer running on my NAS, and yes, it's latest release. Do I need MinimStreamer as well?

 

CORRECTION: I just checked the "About" menu in MinimWatch and yes, I do have the MinimStreamer, latest version, installed. I have no idea how, maybe it installs itself...

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Bananahead

I think that the answer is yes. It's an easy install.

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Gajdzin
Originally Posted by Bananahead:

I think that the answer is yes. It's an easy install.

I found out it's already installed, I don't know why, maybe it installs itself... Latest version, too. So this is not the cause of my problem. Any other ideas...?

 

Also could somebody explain to me the logic of putting ND5XS behind a switch before I go out and buy yet another toy that may not help at all? Right now the streamer is connected to the main house router. The NAS is on the other end of the house, behind a gigabit switch. So if I put the streamer behind another switch, the route will be: NAS->Switch->Router->Switch->ND5XS. Why making the route so long with 3 packet switching devices between them?

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Bananahead

If you don't have any streaming issues then you don't need a switch.

 

Have you checked your m3u file? (format is perfect)   Have you done a rescan in minim?

 

 

And you should be able to open the m3u in Synology Audio Station

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Gajdzin
Originally Posted by Bananahead:

If you don't have any streaming issues then you don't need a switch.

 

Have you checked your m3u file? (format is perfect)   Have you done a rescan in minim?

 

 

And you should be able to open the m3u in Synology Audio Station

Somebody in this thread was recommending a switch, hence my question...

 

My m3u file looks fine and its content is exactly what's under that link I've given.

 

Yes, I have done a re-scan in Minim and in Synology, also cleared the UPnP cache in the Naim app.

 

I don't have AudioStation installed, but I can do it and see what happens.

Posted on: 17 February 2015 by The Meerkat
Originally Posted by Gajdzin:
Also could somebody explain to me the logic of putting ND5XS behind a switch before I go out and buy yet another toy that may not help at all? Right now the streamer is connected to the main house router. The NAS is on the other end of the house, behind a gigabit switch. So if I put the streamer behind another switch, the route will be: NAS->Switch->Router->Switch->ND5XS. Why making the route so long with 3 packet switching devices between them?

Morning Gajdzin...I started this thread just before Christmas. I can't explain a switch properly, but SIS and other forum members do. 

 

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...ding-a-switch?page=1

Posted on: 17 February 2015 by james n

No logic to adding yet another switch. In your setup but if you can simplify it in this way then it can help.

 

NAS > switch > ND5XS

                |

           Router

 

Posted on: 17 February 2015 by Bananahead

I can't really think how adding a switch is going to enable anyone to see missing items in an m3u file.

Posted on: 17 February 2015 by james n

Nor can i - Gajdzin was asking about the logic of a switch in one of his posts hence my reply.  

Posted on: 17 February 2015 by Bananahead
Originally Posted by james n:

Nor can i - Gajdzin was asking about the logic of a switch in one of his posts hence my reply.  

The only reason he was asking was that someone actually suggested that adding a switch might help 

Posted on: 17 February 2015 by james n

Ah yes. Reading right back i see where that's come in ! - give it a few hours and we'll be adding ferrites and expensive ethernet cables to sort it out 

Posted on: 17 February 2015 by Gajdzin
Originally Posted by james n:

No logic to adding yet another switch. In your setup but if you can simplify it in this way then it can help.

 

NAS > switch > ND5XS

                |

           Router

Unfortunately I can't, because the NAS and 6 other devices are on one end of the house, while ND5, router and 3 other devices are on the other end. There is only one run of shielded Cat6 cable (ca. 25m) in the wall between the two ends. To do what you propose I would have to hack the walls again and lay down a second run of ethernet cable. However, if the objective is simply to have the NAS talking to the ND5XS not via something else than the router, I could do this:

 

Switch1 ------------------------ Switch2 -- Router

     |                                           |                |

  NAS                                  ND5XS        ND7

  ND1                                                      ND8 

  ND2                                                      ND9

  ND3...

 

(Where "ND" is a network device, like a PC, internet radio, TV set or WiFi access point).

 

However, I don't see the benefit, because the router also contains a switch with 4 ports, so how is the switch built into the router different form a standalone switch...?

Posted on: 17 February 2015 by Reinibert
Originally Posted by Gajdzin:
Originally Posted by Bananahead:

I think that the answer is yes. It's an easy install.

I found out it's already installed, I don't know why, maybe it installs itself... Latest version, too. So this is not the cause of my problem. Any other ideas...?

I think you have to transcode the radiostreams. It works for me. Go to minimserver properties/system. On the bottom is the field stream.transcode. For the radiostreams to work I had to put in "*:L16" whithout ". The radio-streams in breckets for example [naim] should now work.

Posted on: 17 February 2015 by james n
Originally Posted by Gajdzin:
Originally Posted by james n:

No logic to adding yet another switch. In your setup but if you can simplify it in this way then it can help.

 

NAS > switch > ND5XS

                |

           Router

Unfortunately I can't, because the NAS and 6 other devices are on one end of the house, while ND5, router and 3 other devices are on the other end. There is only one run of shielded Cat6 cable (ca. 25m) in the wall between the two ends. To do what you propose I would have to hack the walls again and lay down a second run of ethernet cable. However, if the objective is simply to have the NAS talking to the ND5XS not via something else than the router, I could do this:

 

Switch1 ------------------------ Switch2 -- Router

     |                                           |                |

  NAS                                  ND5XS        ND7

  ND1                                                      ND8 

  ND2                                                      ND9

  ND3...

 

(Where "ND" is a network device, like a PC, internet radio, TV set or WiFi access point).

 

However, I don't see the benefit, because the router also contains a switch with 4 ports, so how is the switch built into the router different form a standalone switch...?

I see, i've always found keeping the audio 'network' in my case now NAS and Macmini , on a separate switch rather than using the internal switch in the my wireless router has given me a very stable network - the Switch, a Data logger and my Sonos bridge hang off the other router ports. Even at Christmas with a load of kids (and adults !) hammering my wireless network no glitches at all in audio playback. This probably wont solve your internet radio issues (unless your router is doing strange things. As bananahead mentions a few replies back, if you've no present issues with streaming then leave it alone  

Posted on: 17 February 2015 by Gajdzin
Originally Posted by james n:
As bananahead mentions a few replies back, if you've no present issues with streaming then leave it alone  

Streaming is fine, it's the internet radio (some stations) that runs out of buffer memory all the time...

 

To isolate my audio network on one switch I would have to either run another 25 meters of ethernet cable in the wall, or move the NAS to the listening room (no - too noisy with its 2x4TB WD Red HDD), or buy a second NAS with SSD disks and install it next to audio gear. That last option is very tempting, except I can't afford it right now, I would need e.g. QNAP HS-251 fanless NAS + 2x Samsung EVO 1TB SSD disk (my music is already 1,4TB in FLACs), for a total cost of almost 1000 quid...

 

OK, I'm off to try Transcoding as suggested by Bananahead.

Posted on: 18 February 2015 by dzambolaja
Originally Posted by Hal:
Originally Posted by George J:

Just tried this with a plain old MAC Mini - Audiophile Baroque - and it is a perfectly acceptable stream. [USB to DAC V1].

 

The lesson might be to get a MAC Mini and tune in via the webpage?

 

Simples.

 

ATB from George

+1

 

Since UQ2 has been updated to the latest f/w iRadio issues have become sporadic. They were definitely worse before. Still –mostly- 320k stations give a hard time to UQ2 (fluctuating buffer levels, dropouts etc). Last night, I could listen to Naim Radio (320) as well as Linn Jazz through my iMac and McBPR with no problems whatsoever while UQ2 was dead in shallow water in that regard. FWIW, Spotify Connect has so far worked superbly on the Qute.

 

I’m going to say it again. It’s better to leave web radio streaming to the proper computers. Btw, Audiophile Classic is another decent sounding station.    

 

I tend to disagree, in principle - the core feature of very expensive Naim network players is to enable streaming

But let's keep focus on the OP topic, it was about internet streaming from a NAS.  It would be very interesting to get a clear answer, if one exists ...

 

Bobby

 

Bobby

Posted on: 18 February 2015 by dzambolaja
Originally Posted by Gajdzin:
Originally Posted by james n:
As bananahead mentions a few replies back, if you've no present issues with streaming then leave it alone  

Streaming is fine, it's the internet radio (some stations) that runs out of buffer memory all the time...

 

To isolate my audio network on one switch I would have to either run another 25 meters of ethernet cable in the wall, or move the NAS to the listening room (no - too noisy with its 2x4TB WD Red HDD), or buy a second NAS with SSD disks and install it next to audio gear. That last option is very tempting, except I can't afford it right now, I would need e.g. QNAP HS-251 fanless NAS + 2x Samsung EVO 1TB SSD disk (my music is already 1,4TB in FLACs), for a total cost of almost 1000 quid...

 

OK, I'm off to try Transcoding as suggested by Bananahead.

Gajdzin, please let us know how you implement transcoding and what NAS and software you use
Txs

Bobby

Posted on: 18 February 2015 by Gajdzin
Originally Posted by dzambolaja:

Gajdzin, please let us know how you implement transcoding and what NAS and software you use
Txs

Bobby

NAS:

 Synology DS-214play, DSM ver. 5.1-5022 Update 2 (latest)

Software:

 1. Synology Media Server ver. 1.3-2575 (latest)

 2. MinimServer 0.8.2 update 42 (latest)

 3. MinimStreamer 0.4.3 (latest)

 

I implemented transcoding exactly as Reinibert instructed me a few posts ago: Go to minimserver properties/system. On the bottom is the field stream.transcode. For the radiostreams to work I had to put in *:L16

 

Still doesn't work - both Media Server and MinimServer see my playlist, but its contents are empty.

 

I tried this from the Naim app on my iPad mini and from ND5XS front panel.

 

I turned on and off the "UPnP Compatibility Mode" in Naim app, no change. Also cleared UPnP cache in Naim App several times.

Posted on: 18 February 2015 by SteveH

Gajdzin

 

You may have to manually update MinimServer to 0.83b and MinimStreamer 0.52.  Check the mini server forum for help

Posted on: 18 February 2015 by Gajdzin
Originally Posted by SteveH:

Gajdzin

 

You may have to manually update MinimServer to 0.83b and MinimStreamer 0.52.  Check the mini server forum for help

Interesting - Minim claims there are no new updates, so I thought I have the latest one. I'll upgrade and report if it helped.

Posted on: 18 February 2015 by GerryMcg

Hi Gajdzin, if your router has QoS  then implementing this for your Naim device(s) could solve the problem, it did for me on mu-so, UQ and NDS.

 

Gerry

Posted on: 18 February 2015 by Bananahead

You need to be on the latest software for minim

 

Server is 0.83b and Streamer is 0.5.3

 

Download Server from Minim to your computer.

In Synology package center tell it that you want packages form any source - not just trusted - and then do a manual install.

You can then use minimwatch to do the streamer updates I think.