Naim NAC-N 272 Streaming Preamplifier

I'll be watching this thread about the 272 with interest as I have been considering adding streamer and would like a pre-amp upgrade from nac 202 which is getting on a bit now.  This looks promising, and I could finally loose the 'silly' napsc which is needed from SQ point of view but is annoying to site & power......

We need a DAC-Pre not a Streamer-DAC-Pre.

All the wailing and gnashing of teeth about streaming software and yet people still want the streamer built in. Lessons learned about modularity = none.

You could always turn the streamer off and use it as a DAC/pre.

+1

Pros (based on unverifed information available):

1. Analogue inputs
2. PSU upgradeable
3. Can bypass streamer module with digital input

Cons (based on unverifed information available):

1. Streamer module built-in
2. By-passing onboard streamer creates redundancy
3. Positioned below 282 in SQ hierarchy

Or, even better, a UPnP client, a DAC and a Pre.

Better still, a PSU upgradeable shoebox pre-amp at 282 level with digital and analogue inputs.

+1

A £3.3K streaming pre-amp doesn't make much sense to me either.

Maybe a DAC-V2 for those that crave something better than DAC-V1?

Dave

Or turn off both the streamer and the DAC and use it as a pre. Or turn off the DAC and the pre and use it as a UPnP client. Or ... many combinations are thinkable, some of them will be possible and a few will be seen in very baroque and redundant user systems.

Integrated devices can be very interesting propositions. I very much like my SN2 and admire the Uniti range. But they need to be complemented with modular, dedicated devices.

For me, a streamer + dac is a no go. And a streamer + dac + pre even more so: it is a bad idea to bury software that, by design, needs to be continuously upgraded and extended (e.g., to cope with rapidly changing services and formats) into the firmware of highly integrated devices.

Defective by design, I would say.

Take the point for the most part. Modularity is something I have always advised people to consider on here. However, I can't quite fully agree with your point on software.

Something like a Sonos ZP80 streamer, released almost 10 years ago, is still going strong and receiving updates no problem. However, Sonos is primarily a software (and hardware) company.

Streaming of services is in fact a simple task in computing terms, not the lunar landing some posters on here would have you believe. However, the initial software/hardware design blueprint must be right or there will be problems later.

This is where I have had a slight question mark over Naim (which I hope they will address with these new models) but to be honest I am happy to use their DAC / pre-amp / power-amp range and not really bothered whether they include streamers / streaming modules or not.

You heard it here first NAIM make wrong product AGAIN!!!  

Or just a nDAC 2 in a half box. Very straightforward and quite immune to whatever BBC vagaries.

It will certainly be the right product for those, whom market research has hopefully proven to be in the majority, that want an integrated device. It is completely understandable that some will want the streaming services built-in and not to have to deal with another device. Good luck to Naim in this market.

However, as this is or was mainly a hi-fi geek forum the same approach may not necessarily have the same appeal on here. In fact this device is a namesake of the original 72. As many here will remember, it was a pre-amp only and even within that single function remained highly modular with plug-in cards. I expect that is one reason why people are still using them 25 years later.

Which of the current streamers do you expect to see in use in 2040?

Just out, no one has heard it and already being written off. Gotta love the Naim forum...

I'd have thought for those that want better than the Superuniti, with a clear upgrade path or complain of too many boxes this should be the answer. 

Its only the wrong product if it doesn't sell.  No one has heard it yet, I could turn out to be a wonderful product that will convince even us awkward buggers who would like to see something different.  I hope it does really well even if it isn't currently of interest to me, time will tell.

I don't think anyone is writing it off for its market appeal. I think you just have different consumer groups and those on here are naturally of a certain disposition or they would not be on a hi-fi forum. I think Naim has broader horizons these days (and rightly so).

Personally I think it corrects the main NAC-172 issues (PSU upgradeable etc) and will certainly give it a demo.

If I heard a demo of the NAC-272, liked it and convinced myself through an A/B test that using the streamer in the unit conferred tangible sonic benefits over bypassing it via the digital input, then I might be interested - even if the integrated aspect goes against the grain.

The key is really whether having the streamer module in the device improves SQ through shorter signal paths etc. If it does, it might go some way to counter the modularity preference expressed above.

Finally, I would find the option to bypass the streaming module somewhat reassuring in turns of future-proofing given all the wailing about streamers on here.

Shoebox pre with digital input above 282 level and dac quality of the hugo, I am on my third 72 with a hugo but use third party RSL plugin boards for my 72 that I cannot discuss on this forum.

I agree in principle that these types of integrated features can open you up to the possibility obsolescence. For me, I end up liking them because then I don't have to stress about which streamer is the best for my kit, them which is the best method to connect, lastly which diamond coated Teflon dielectric cable made of unobtanium is the best. It is just simple and it will work for as long as I need it too.

Lastly in regards to these lossless streaming features that keep coming out, I am just not interested.

I should probably make my point more precise. I am not arguing the 272 is a "wrong" product.

First, because it is not a product already. Second because, as I wrote, integrated devices can be very appealing and I am sure the 272 will appeal to someone. And if will appeal to many, it will certainly not be a "wrong" product. At least, not from the point of view of a sales manager. And I do not exclude it might appeal to me at some point. But for the moment and given what I known (which, I admit, is very little), I consider the 272 a weak proposition. This is because of two major concerns: 

The first concern is the lack of alternative, modular devices: Naim has been pushing integrated streamers and streaming solutions quite vehemently and has completely disregarded the need for dedicated, modular devices: bare dacs, bare UPnP clients and, most importantly, bare players. This is not only very annoying. It also makes me read the announcemnet of yet another device with an integrated UPnP client with a mixture of disappointment and suspicion.

The second issue I am concerned about are the consequences of embedding commodity software -- in particular, software that by design requires frequent maintenance -- into dacs and pres. I am sure that this embedding can be done in a meaningful way but I am not sure Naim has done it in a meaningful way. And I tend to believe that the right place for this kind of software is on the SSD drive of an "appliance" box rather than on firmware.

As long as Naim is not providing credible arguments against these two concerns, I am considering the 272 to be defective by design. But I am ready to learn more and change my opinion, of course.

It very much depends on the viewpoint. I do not really care whether a product does sell or not. For example, iPads are defective designs to me. They would still be defective designs even if Apple would sell 10 times iPads as they are doing now (which is already quite a lot). But I can understand that a sales manager might have a different perception of "wrongness".

Nbpf, out of interest if you consider the iPad a defective design, how would you define an optimum design?

Simon