Naim NAC-N 272 Streaming Preamplifier

Posted by: bicela on 15 February 2015

Dear All,

 

following the posts and rumors around for months I'm pleased to see that Naim is releasing this new model.

 

Some useful comments are already here: https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/bristol?page=1

 

I'm really interested to buy it as upgrade of my Uniti2, with NAP250/2 that powering the Quad 2905 (these last two are already very well matched for my taste).

 

Maybe is not perfect as we wished, we can so post here any comments and hopefully get answer by Naim.

Let me to start:

 

- The analog input for phono (Stageline) is not powered? If so, is possibile to use SuperCap for powering the 272 and simultaneously the Stageline? Special cables are so needed?

 

- Has 272 a new DAC and/or improvements that are not present in previous streamers?

 

- When it will be shipped to costumers?

 

Warm regards, Maurizio

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Jude2012
Originally Posted by gtiboy:
Originally Posted by Jude2012:
Originally Posted by gtiboy:
Originally Posted by intothevoid:

Well it's not going to out-perform a 282 as that's over £4k, and this comes in at £3k. A 202 is £2k, so is this 'just' a 202 with added streaming/DAC capability?

Well Naim state that it has optical isolation, which is what the NDS uses. So I suspect the sound quality will be higher than that of the NAC 202. After all technology has moved on since the 202 was released. And the fact that you can use a 555PS DR says it all in terms what what kind of sound quality can be attained from this unit.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it can out perform a bare NDX / Supernait 2 setup. 

Interesting reference to optical isolation and the NDS.  In respect of the information source, has Naim released the specs or some other offical communucation?

Andrew Everards and the now removed 'Hifi Gear' web page, makes reference to the S1 Pre (which to me is interesting as development of the Statement beagn 10 years before its release in 2014) and hence my question about the comparison of the design of the volume control of 272 with that of the DAC V1 and Super Uniti. 

 

Also, is it that unusual for Naim products to have floating circuit boards?

 

Jude

 

 

 

 

https://www.naimaudio.com/product/nac-n-272

 

Up on their website

Thanks.  Couldnt see it earlier on.

 

J

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by nickpeacock
Originally Posted by james n:
Originally Posted by nickpeacock:

I for one am interested in this product. To my mind, paired with a 250.2, it's an alternative to SN2/NDX and I am interested in reducing my box-count.

 

BUT - can anyone tell from looking at the back panel and the specs whether I can bypass the internal DAC with my Hugo? It certainly seems to have a digital SPDIF out, so presumably it can be made to operate just like my ND5XS into Hugo into 282...

 

[Sound quality is a separate matter, and I'm not going to debate that here, thanks.]

 

 

If i understand you correctly Nick, you want to use the Hugo as the DAC, fed by the S/PDIF output on the 272 and then use the 272 as the pre-amp at the same time, then no that wouldn't work. 

Thanks, james n - yes that's right.

 

Ah, that's a shame. Could you briefly explain to me why it wouldn't work? I'm guessing that inside it's not divvied up into source, dac and and pre-amp in a way which allows for the dac to be bypassed...

 

Back to dedicated streamer + SN2 as the two-box Naim combo which allows me to use my Hugo then, huh?

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by karlosTT

Where can I get DSD files from, by the way?

 

Keith

 

There's a number of sites out there Keith, mostly small-ish and limited in range. I have found nativedsd.com pretty decent in all respects.....

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by james n
Originally Posted by nickpeacock:
Originally Posted by james n:
Originally Posted by nickpeacock:

I for one am interested in this product. To my mind, paired with a 250.2, it's an alternative to SN2/NDX and I am interested in reducing my box-count.

 

BUT - can anyone tell from looking at the back panel and the specs whether I can bypass the internal DAC with my Hugo? It certainly seems to have a digital SPDIF out, so presumably it can be made to operate just like my ND5XS into Hugo into 282...

 

[Sound quality is a separate matter, and I'm not going to debate that here, thanks.]

 

 

If i understand you correctly Nick, you want to use the Hugo as the DAC, fed by the S/PDIF output on the 272 and then use the 272 as the pre-amp at the same time, then no that wouldn't work. 

Thanks, james n - yes that's right.

 

Ah, that's a shame. Could you briefly explain to me why it wouldn't work? I'm guessing that inside it's not divvied up into source, dac and and pre-amp in a way which allows for the dac to be bypassed...

 

Back to dedicated streamer + SN2 as the two-box Naim combo which allows me to use my Hugo then, huh?

Hi Nick - you'd have to select a digital input source (Ethernet etc) on the 272 to produce an S/PDIF output, but to listen to the output of the Hugo, you'd need to select an analogue input on the 272 and here's the problem - you can't have both selected together. 

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by KRM

Thanks Karlos

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Andrew Everard
Originally Posted by KRM:

Where can I get DSD files from, by the way?

For some free sample files, try www.2L.no and go to 'Test Bench HD audio files' under the '2L store' tab top right of the home page, or http://bluecoastrecords.com/free-downloads (registration required for this one)

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Aleg
Originally Posted by KRM:

....

 

Where can I get DSD files from, by the way?

 

Keith

Keith

 

This search will give you nearly all that are available http://www.findhdmusic.com/alb...ch/?q=&fmt_dsd=1

 

cheers

 

Aleg

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Originally Posted by gtiboy:
Originally Posted by intothevoid:

Well it's not going to out-perform a 282 as that's over £4k, and this comes in at £3k. A 202 is £2k, so is this 'just' a 202 with added streaming/DAC capability?

Well Naim state that it has optical isolation, which is what the NDS uses. So I suspect the sound quality will be higher than that of the NAC 202. After all technology has moved on since the 202 was released. And the fact that you can use a 555PS DR says it all in terms what what kind of sound quality can be attained from this unit.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it can out perform a bare NDX / Supernait 2 setup. 

I think optical isolation has been used in most of the streamers. Its certainly used between DSP and DAC within the NDX as well.

 

The NDS goes to some extent to decouple and separate out and shield the streaming and data input boards from the DSP. Looking at the packed PCB here this appears not to be the case with the N-272

 

But historically the 72 NAC was the junior sibling to the 82 NAC and was less detailed and ultimately less accomplished sonically for most people compared to the 82.

I would have though that to be the case here.. otherwise it would have been a NAC-N 282.

 

So I think the view of the beefed up 202 with integrated ND5SX streamer with added DSD capability is probably a good positioning. Certainly both respectable components in their own right and no doubt enticing combined in a single box. I wonder what it will sound like?

 

Simon

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Marky Mark
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:
But historically the 72 NAC was the junior sibling to the 82 NAC and was less detailed and ultimately less accomplished sonically for most people compared to the 82.

I would have though that to be the case here.. otherwise it would have been a NAC-N 282.

 

So I think the view of the beefed up 202 with integrated ND5SX streamer with added DSD capability is probably a good positioning.

Seems unlikely. The 72 was below the 102 in the hierarchy. The 102 was the precursor to the 202. Hence if the 272 was a beefed up 202 it would be a departure from the numbering system and hierarchy.

 

The pre-amp section in the 272 is probably somewhere between a 152 XS and a 202.

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by PhilP
MM - I take your point about product numbering but Naim themselves are suggesting a 250 as the partner which would seem to imply, given their previous recommendations, that they see it as a 282 level product
Posted on: 16 February 2015 by nickpeacock
Originally Posted by james n:
Originally Posted by nickpeacock:
Originally Posted by james n:
Originally Posted by nickpeacock:

I for one am interested in this product. To my mind, paired with a 250.2, it's an alternative to SN2/NDX and I am interested in reducing my box-count.

 

BUT - can anyone tell from looking at the back panel and the specs whether I can bypass the internal DAC with my Hugo? It certainly seems to have a digital SPDIF out, so presumably it can be made to operate just like my ND5XS into Hugo into 282...

 

[Sound quality is a separate matter, and I'm not going to debate that here, thanks.]

 

 

If i understand you correctly Nick, you want to use the Hugo as the DAC, fed by the S/PDIF output on the 272 and then use the 272 as the pre-amp at the same time, then no that wouldn't work. 

Thanks, james n - yes that's right.

 

Ah, that's a shame. Could you briefly explain to me why it wouldn't work? I'm guessing that inside it's not divvied up into source, dac and and pre-amp in a way which allows for the dac to be bypassed...

 

Back to dedicated streamer + SN2 as the two-box Naim combo which allows me to use my Hugo then, huh?

Hi Nick - you'd have to select a digital input source (Ethernet etc) on the 272 to produce an S/PDIF output, but to listen to the output of the Hugo, you'd need to select an analogue input on the 272 and here's the problem - you can't have both selected together. 

Got it, james n - thanks.

 

[Am bear of small brain...]

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Marky Mark
Originally Posted by PhilP:
MM - I take your point about product numbering but Naim themselves are suggesting a 250 as the partner which would seem to imply, given their previous recommendations, that they see it as a 282 level product

Unlikely. They have suggested 200 or 250. Furthrmore, lots of people ran the 72 into the 250 and for many it was the quintessential Naim system of that era.

 

Realistically speaking, they're not going to sell a 282 level product for 25% less with both a streamer module and a DAC added. I fear that is wishful thinking and the numbering of the model suggests it is too.

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by james n
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:
Originally Posted by gtiboy:
 

 

But historically the 72 NAC was the junior sibling to the 82 NAC and was less detailed and ultimately less accomplished sonically for most people compared to the 82.

 

Hi Simon, I'm not sure the 82 was the true successor to the 72. That was left to the 52. The 82 brought better record functionality, more inputs and remote control and the ability to use 4 voltage rails rather the two of the 72. By doing that it brought more compromises too, with microprocessor control, the NAPSC and the rather strange power supply config options (2 hi-caps and the earthing arrangements this brings...), not really bettering the 72 until a Supercap was in tow. Still a great pre-amp but perhaps not quite the big step up on the 72 the 52 was. 

 

James

 

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Marky Mark
Originally Posted by james n:
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:
Originally Posted by gtiboy:
 

 

But historically the 72 NAC was the junior sibling to the 82 NAC and was less detailed and ultimately less accomplished sonically for most people compared to the 82.

 

Hi Simon, I'm not sure the 82 was the true successor to the 72. That was left to the 52. The 82 brought better record functionality, more inputs and remote control and the ability to use 4 voltage rails rather the two of the 72. By doing that it brought more compromises too, with microprocessor control, the NAPSC and the rather strange power supply config options (2 hi-caps and the earthing arrangements this brings...), not really bettering the 72 until a Supercap was in tow. Still a great pre-amp but perhaps not quite the big step up on the 72 the 52 is. 

 

James

 

They were very different sonically. The 82 was sold as a step-up but you're right to mention the functional differences also. I once thought (perhaps incorrectly!) the 52 was a bit like two 72's (one for each channel) plus regulation and tighter component matching. Furthermore, the 72 was briefly top of the pre-amp range until the 52 was introduced. The 82 followed later.

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Aleg
Originally Posted by PhilP:
MM - I take your point about product numbering but Naim themselves are suggesting a 250 as the partner which would seem to imply, given their previous recommendations, that they see it as a 282 level product

They say it can be used with 200, 250 or even 300.

That would put it at a 202 level for me.

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Marky Mark
Originally Posted by Aleg:
Originally Posted by PhilP:
MM - I take your point about product numbering but Naim themselves are suggesting a 250 as the partner which would seem to imply, given their previous recommendations, that they see it as a 282 level product

They say it can be used with 200, 250 or even 300.

That would put it at a 202 level for me.

It has been designated classic series. This is why the classic series power amps have been listed.

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by PhilP
Originally Posted by Marky Mark:
Originally Posted by Aleg:
Originally Posted by PhilP:
MM - I take your point about product numbering but Naim themselves are suggesting a 250 as the partner which would seem to imply, given their previous recommendations, that they see it as a 282 level product

They say it can be used with 200, 250 or even 300.

That would put it at a 202 level for me.

It has been designated classic series. This is why the classic series power amps have been listed.

I'm sure you're right but if a 272 is only 202 level then it would not make much sense to partner it with a 250 let alone a 300.

 

To be honest, the more I think about it the more I agree with the earlier comments that this is not an optimised design for the current let alone future demands of streaming-focussed customers. In my view it would make far more sense to put the streaming functionality in an easily updated separate box (like the Auralic Aries) and produce a 282-level DAC-Pre.

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Jude2012
Originally Posted by PhilP:
Originally Posted by Marky Mark:
Originally Posted by Aleg:
Originally Posted by PhilP:
MM - I take your point about product numbering but Naim themselves are suggesting a 250 as the partner which would seem to imply, given their previous recommendations, that they see it as a 282 level product

They say it can be used with 200, 250 or even 300.

That would put it at a 202 level for me.

It has been designated classic series. This is why the classic series power amps have been listed.

I'm sure you're right but if a 272 is only 202 level then it would not make much sense to partner it with a 250 let alone a 300.

 

To be honest, the more I think about it the more I agree with the earlier comments that this is not an optimised design for the current let alone future demands of streaming-focussed customers. In my view it would make far more sense to put the streaming functionality in an easily updated separate box (like the Auralic Aries) and produce a 282-level DAC-Pre.

Yep, a shoe box DAC Pre, without an onboard PSU  

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Solid Air
Is it possible that the lower end of the Classic range could all follow suit? It makes sense to me to separate the power amp from the more sensitive electronics in the pre, dac and streamer. But those three might as well all be together in one box at that level - delete the 152, 202 etc in favour of the 172 and 272.

Wouldn't you rather have a 272/200 than an ND5sx/152/155?

Up to the point customers invest in power supplies, etc, it seems a sensible move to me. (I speak as a happy 172 owner).
Posted on: 16 February 2015 by DavidDever
Originally Posted by PhilP:
Originally Posted by Marky Mark:
Originally Posted by Aleg:
Originally Posted by PhilP:
MM - I take your point about product numbering but Naim themselves are suggesting a 250 as the partner which would seem to imply, given their previous recommendations, that they see it as a 282 level product

They say it can be used with 200, 250 or even 300.

That would put it at a 202 level for me.

It has been designated classic series. This is why the classic series power amps have been listed.

I'm sure you're right but if a 272 is only 202 level then it would not make much sense to partner it with a 250 let alone a 300.

 

To be honest, the more I think about it the more I agree with the earlier comments that this is not an optimised design for the current let alone future demands of streaming-focussed customers. In my view it would make far more sense to put the streaming functionality in an easily updated separate box (like the Auralic Aries) and produce a 282-level DAC-Pre.

By the time a manufacturer puts a DAC into a product, it either requires some sort of file playback capability (DAC, Uniti / NDx / NAC-N) or an asynchronous USB input (DAC-V1) for connection to another digital playback source device, in order to survive within the market. Control is a given, and easy to implement if one already has a network endpoint and service descriptions to work from.

 

While there may be an argument for host-based control of a USB-slaved Naim preamp-DAC product as you've described (where the app controls iTunes and volume data is passed to the slave device for attenuation), it's less of the typical use case than a networked-file playback endpoint.

 

To that end, I'd also guess that the networked products have heartily outsold the DAC-V1 and DAC combined.

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by bicela

Interesting, from manual:

Note 1.2: If your NAC-N 272 is to be powered by an external power supply, remove the power supply upgrade link plug and connect the external power supply using the appropriate Burndy cable. Do not connect the NAC-N 272 mains cable.

Important: XPS power supplies with serial numbers below 188015 are not compatible with the NAC-N 272 and should not be used. Contact your local retailer or distributor for more information. 

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Originally Posted by PhilP:
Originally Posted by Marky Mark:
Originally Posted by Aleg:
Originally Posted by PhilP:
MM - I take your point about product numbering but Naim themselves are suggesting a 250 as the partner which would seem to imply, given their previous recommendations, that they see it as a 282 level product

They say it can be used with 200, 250 or even 300.

That would put it at a 202 level for me.

It has been designated classic series. This is why the classic series power amps have been listed.

I'm sure you're right but if a 272 is only 202 level then it would not make much sense to partner it with a 250 let alone a 300.

 

To be honest, the more I think about it the more I agree with the earlier comments that this is not an optimised design for the current let alone future demands of streaming-focussed customers. In my view it would make far more sense to put the streaming functionality in an easily updated separate box (like the Auralic Aries) and produce a 282-level DAC-Pre.

Well I have heard the NAC-N-172XS playing into NAP 300 with Kudos Titans and it sounded very good indeed. So the amp I suspect depends to some extent by what sort of speakers you are driving.

 

Simon

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by DavidDever
Originally Posted by bicela:

Interesting, from manual:

Note 1.2: If your NAC-N 272 is to be powered by an external power supply, remove the power supply upgrade link plug and connect the external power supply using the appropriate Burndy cable. Do not connect the NAC-N 272 mains cable.

Important: XPS power supplies with serial numbers below 188015 are not compatible with the NAC-N 272 and should not be used. Contact your local retailer or distributor for more information. 

Those would be olive and use the SuperCap transformer rather than the (dedicated) XPS one.

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Originally Posted by bicela:

Interesting, from manual:

Note 1.2: If your NAC-N 272 is to be powered by an external power supply, remove the power supply upgrade link plug and connect the external power supply using the appropriate Burndy cable. Do not connect the NAC-N 272 mains cable.

Important: XPS power supplies with serial numbers below 188015 are not compatible with the NAC-N 272 and should not be used. Contact your local retailer or distributor for more information. 

That is the same instruction as for the NDX. If you do attach both - an alert pops up on the display - and you need to let the NDX fully discharge for several minutes before it will allow you to power it in either mode..

 

Posted on: 16 February 2015 by PhilP
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Well I have heard the NAC-N-172XS playing into NAP 300 with Kudos Titans and it sounded very good indeed. So the amp I suspect depends to some extent by what sort of speakers you are driving.

 

Simon

But I'm sure you would agree that 172-300 is not a combination many would go for - in fact I've never heard of anyone on the Forum who made that choice