DSD on ND5 XS, NDX, NDS and Superuniti

What does the implementation of DSD heve to do with lossless streaming?

Oh, and free firmware updates are the rule in this industry, nothing special really. Naim is just doing what everybody else does.

Maybe I didn't express clearly my point: Naim is working on implementing lossless streaming services on their streamers.

Due to the fact that the Nac N 272 is the newest addition to the range, its mainboard will surely be compatible with this type of services.

If the motherboard of the 272 is the same of the ND5 XS, NDX etc., also these streamers will be probably firmware updated to implement these services !

Ah, I see what you mean.

As far as I know, the upgrades will become effective for all streaming products.

But this does not necessarily mean that the streaming boards are all the same. You can see this also with other brands - different generations all run on the same firmware, though sometimes with differing utilization grades.

I don't think the board has got anything to do with it as I assume it is all done in software in the SHARC DSP. So the requirement is to have the same SHARC DSP.

The boards of the NDS, NDX, ND5 XS probably won't be equal either.

Support for lossless streaming has nothing to do with DSP capability, unless you are specifically concerned about DSF- or DFF-formatted DSD content [which, frankly, would probably be streamed as DSD-over-PCM (DoP) anyway].

As for lossless streaming from Beats / Apple, that might be the reason why Naim has delayed AirPlay support / certification until it is ready....

Probably a silly question, but what is DSD, and what difference will it make to my life once my SuperUniti has it?

Basically it's the underlying audio technology behind SACD. Theoretically it's better than PCM, but there is still a lot of strong discussion about that.  

I looked in to DSD and largely concluded based on the small amount of available material and the complexity of ripping existing SACDs it wasn't especially relevant. It's generally more expensive, which is probably one of the main reasons there isn't much material out there. Personally I'm more interested in technologies like MQA which are tying to make Internet streamed music better.

Actually the most usefull implementation I have heard is PS Audio's Directstream DAC which upsample everything that goes through the DAC to 10x DSD.

Indeed - the lossless streaming capability if and when it arrives will most likely be down to code residing in the streaming board - whilst the DSP manages quite separate functions. However if new codecs are required (possibly excluding containers) for recent BBC web radio developments - then I expect this will reside in code residing in the SHARC processor.

Simon

The existing codecs are handled on the streaming board, and not the SHARC.

Slightly off-topic, but I wonder if any of these upgrades will become available for the Naim servers also...

Regards,

Michel

If you want to know what is available as DSD downloads look here http://www.findhdmusic.com/alb...ch/?q=&fmt_dsd=1

1263 albums, mostly classical and jazz I would think.

That DSD64 is better than PCM is a myth.

Some people like it better than PCM, the same as some people prefer vinyl over

PCM digital audio. Is it better? No, PCM Digital audio has better 'technical characteristics' than both dsd64 and vinyl but that is not what determines one's preference of sound.

Go for what you like best, regardless of the format. In the end the only thing that matters is that you enjoy your music in the way you like best.

Rubbish! Vinyl is clearly superior in all pertinent ways

David - in looking at the block diagrams of the streamer you appear correct.. I think I am correct that the NDAC uses the Bluefin DSP for codec processing before the SHARC DSP.

However it appears the SPDIF encoding and protocol is decoded by the SHARC DSP for the streamers.. perhaps you know whether the Streamer Module outputs SPDIF?

One thing to bear in mind is that, outside of Europe and the USA, lossless streaming services are far from ubiquitous.  Here in NZ we have one of the largest per capita ratios of naim ownership in the world but as of today no lossless streaming services are available here.  We do have spotify though.  So at this stage the clamour for inclusion of lossless streaming services is largely irrelevant to us but the recent addition of Spotify connect was most welcome.

Perhaps Naim are looking at the bigger/global picture here and will make there move when they are ready.  Anyone with any idea what naim's global revenue splits might be and how big a chunk Europe constitutes of that?

Naim weren't the first company to build a CD player, DAC, or streamer but when the did, they by and large got it right.  Maybe the same will apply in this instance too.

Does this DSD capability mean that you can connect an SACD player directly without the signal being converted to PCM in the chain? 

Do you have SACD-player that will output DSD-streams over SPDIF?

If you read correctly it says it will play dsf64 and dff64 file formats.

BTW N-272 is converting DSD into PCM

I don't have an SACD player but I've read that there are some pretty good versions of albums found on the format so was wondering whether it would eventually be worth looking into.

But then if they say file formats that probably excludes a direct digital hardware link capability I suppose.

I thought SACD players were "banned" from outputting DSD through SPDIF ?

In any event it may well be better to have the DAC processing done by the player itself, and feed (eg) the 272 through its analogue inputs....

It will be interesting to see how Naim's take on DSD implementation performs.  Leastways it will interest me, if not Hungryhalibut above  ;-)

Well, I think this is great. It allows us to perform the comparison of DSD64 encoding over LPCM. At present, I currently convert SACD ISOs & .dff/.dsf files to FLAC using Foobar2000

I suspect that Naim will be introducing DoP (DSD over PCM) within their DSP/DAC chain.

dBPoweramp has just added DSD support and the ability to convert a .dsf or .dff file to FLAC.

See https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/s...codec-DSD-Decoder-R2

I believe there is also work underway in the Asset UPnP server to allow DSD -> WAVE dynamic transcoding, but this in a Beta for the Windows version https://forum.dbpoweramp.com/s...?34627-Asset-UPnP-R5

I do hope that the R5 version can be ported to the Raspberry Pi 2 soon and with the additional CPU power for this transcoding.

Exciting futures - Beta releases all round.

Simon_in_Dublin

That is true.

They were allowed only to output 48kHz PCM over SPDIF. Otherwise no license from 'mr. Sony'.

This was a copy-protection mechanism for safeguarding 'high resolution' DSD from being copied.

Excuse my ignorance but if SACD's can't output DSD where can we source DSD files then?

From downloads from music stores:  http://www.findhdmusic.com/alb...ch/?q=&fmt_dsd=1

SACD players can use SDIF-3 which uses three 75Ω BNC cables (L / R / 44.1kHz reference clock) to carry the data.

Just a suggestion that of the 2 DSD file formats dff and dsf you should opt for dsf as this has support for tagging. I know that the dsf files I've managed to extract from my iso files can be tagged using my usual mp3tag program.

I think I've sorted the syntax for transcoding from dsf to DoPwav in minimserver and am now looking forward to seeing how these files sound once the new streamer software update is released.