ND5 with XPS...No Wow Factor

Hi Meerkat,

I assume that you tried the ND5 bare before adding the XPSDR? Your friend's setup is significantly different to your own esp. in regard to the amplification and speakers so perhaps you had very high expectations of what you might gain from your source in his setup with/without the XPS. The 252 Pre/ 300 Power amp might just be exposing the limitations of the ND5 even when powered by the XPS.

You might try demoing your ND5 with a XP5XS or XPSDR in your own setup at home to get a better idea of what an external PS can add.

+1 on trying at home in yr own set-up

Also I was blown away with an XPS on CDX2,  but on NDX it's not the same audible gain. Yes it's better than bare NDX by a worthwhile amount, So much so that I don't think I could live with it bare now I know what XPS does without hankering over upgrades.   

Scott...it makes sense for you to go for a XPS, if you are thinking of upgrading to a NDS, or NDS. it wasn't just what I thought, my friend couldn't notice much improvement either.

I assume that you tried the ND5 bare before adding the XPSDR?

sjbabbey...Yes, we demoed the ND5 without the XPS first, for a day!

Hmm... I think you've ruined your own experiment in two ways. 1. By trying the ND5/XPS in a different listening environment. 2. By trying the ND5 in a system that's far beyond it's intended use.

If your friend is willing to lend your his XPS to try at home, that's probably well worth a shot. I would recommend playing your own system at home sans XPS for a week or so to get your ears back in sync, then add the XPS. That's far more likely to give you a definitive answer.

Mike...Demos of any kind are always done best in ones own home, but considering the Quality of the kit it was demoed on, I feel that at least one of us should have heard a noticeable difference. My friend uses his CDS3 with the XPS. Just to confirm, the ND5 was first tested without the XPS.

Unfortunately, I don't think he'd let me have his XPS for a week, as it powers his CDS3.  Also, he lives 230 miles away! I took the opportunity to demo my ND5 on his kit, as we both went to Bristol. Perhaps I could demo one from my dealer.

I think this is the problem.  My understanding is the NDX >> ND5 + XP5 due to a higher quality analog output.  [Supposedly the NDX power supply is the same as XP5]

Meekat

Forget the PSU on the ND it will only bring marginal gains. I had one on an ND5 and NDX and it brings worthwhile but subtle gains.

yes add a Hugo and get the instant wow factor for less money than the PSU. Try it you may like it.

Graeme 

These are all good comments. It was my Naim system and XPS2DR that were being used to test the Meerkat's ND5. I do think we may have made too many changes too quickly, from playing the ND5 sat on a small wooden table, then transferring it to the top shelf of the Fraim in place of my CDS3, playing a few tracks and then plugging in the XPS2. I think I was a little 'punch drunk' at this point trying to compare what was changing sonically. I was impressed what putting the ND5 on to the Fraim rack did in tidying up the sound and producing increased clarity, connection of the XPS2 did not really appear to change anything which quite surprised me, I would have expected more but as I have said maybe it was too many changes too quickly without the time to really 'get it'. Very often it takes time to appreciate the subtle changes a power supply can make and it eventually becomes more obvious when you take the power supply away. I know Dave has had a similar experience with the HiCap on his Supernait.

I think borrowing an XP5XS from the dealer for a few days is the right way forward to give a best audition of adding a power supply to the ND5.

I was very impressed how good the ND5 sounded, especially on HiRes tracks, compared to my CDS3.

Not wishing to Hijack the Meerkats post but it does make me wonder if my XPS2 is delivering OK, the unit is not yet 5 years old and the DR upgrade was completed last September. Just a thought!

Ken

The other thing to keep in mind is the XP5XS is not DR,  but I've read some posts that indicated that some equipment was preferred with a non-DR PSU

Its all about yr own ears & in yr own equipment & yr own room  &  IMO probably most dependant on how revealing your speakers are .

FoxMan50...The DAC inside the ND5 is superior to the one inside my Supernait, which is why I use the Din connection from the ND5. I have heard nothing but praise for the Hugo DAC, so that is something I'd like to demo. It's small and easy to set up.

I have read Southweststokie's reply, and just want to confirm, that the demo was done over two days. Day one without the XPS, day two with it. I just think that the XPS should have given an immediate improvement, rather than, only noticeable over a week or so. Also, it wasn't just the XPS, it was all the other quality Naim black boxes that should have made the ND5 shine at it's best.

Without taking my post off topic, hearing the instant change, by moving the ND5 from a small table to Fraim, got me thinking about getting a new rack. Seeing some of those racks at Bristol edged me towards this way of thinking. However, demoing racks must be a logistical nightmare.

Good point Mike. I'm sure people who have a power supply, with and without DR, have their own personal preference.

You've got a lot of things at play here - the improvement in the move of the ND5 to another table may be down to a re-alignment of the Burndy cable rather than the support. I suspect you'll get the biggest change from moving to a Hugo but you'll get more of the things the ND5 does best by improving the PSU.

I find when demoing, the most telling sign of whether a component is going to stay is when you remove it and go back to the original. 

I'm not sure I agree with your logic here. The ND5 with the XPS was not being played in a balanced system. The natural partner for the 252/300 would probably be an NDS/PS555 or at least an NDX plus PSU whereas the ND5XS and XP5 or XPS should be more balanced in your own SN1/HiCap setup.

The other black boxes were making the ND5 shine at it's best or do you think it still should have sounded better?

James,

The Burndy did not come into play whilst the ND5 was on the small table. The Burndy was only connected when the ND5 was positioned on the top shelf of the Fraim in place of my CDS3 so the Burdy orientation was exactly the same as my CDS3, not touching the Wall, ground or any other cable.

Ken

Ah i see - not very clear from the original post hence my response. 

James

Where did that information come from? No - the NDXs internal power supply is not the same as the the XP5XS ...

The NDX does have a better quality analogue output stage than the ND5XS though and *BOTH* are improved by the addition of an external PSU (whether XP5XS, XPS or 555PS).

Cheers

Phil

Scott...The XPS was not connected to the ND5 whilst on the small table. The standard Naim Din interconnect was used. To get the full potential of the XPS, we waited until the ND5 was on the Fraim, using the Burndy.

Sorry James, my fault, I didn't make that very clear in my post.