ND5 with XPS...No Wow Factor
Posted by: The Meerkat on 23 February 2015
I've heard so much hype about sticking a power supply on the ND5, I decided to give it a go. I took my ND5 to a friends house over the weekend, and connected it to his Naim system, which comprised of Fraim - Powerlines x 3 - XPS2DR - Sarum TA - NAC252 / SupercapDR - Sarum TA DIN/XLR - NAP300 - Telurium Q Black - Paradigm Signature 6 Speakers.
Quite disappointed really. I expected a wow factor, but the sound was only very slightly different, not necessarily better. The most noticeable improvement, was when we moved the ND5 from a small table, on to the Fraim!
Is it a possibility that the ND5 would shine better, with a XP5 XS, rather than the XPSDR?
I be would be interested to hear comments from those that have added a power supply to their ND5.
Thank guys
Very surprising that the XPS did not show obvious improvement, which would slowly double in the following week. Presumably the Burndy was "massaged" and installed and "dressed" for best performance. The Burndy can significantly influence the performance of the PS, but I am sure the owner must know this.
Charlie,
I'm not sure what you mean by massaged? The Burndy runs vertically from the XPS2 to the CDS3 (or ND5XS) in a relaxed state, not stretched and does not touch the Fraim stand or any other cable.
Ken
I have an ND5. Tried with the XP5 and sold the XP5 within weeks. The XPS2 which I have now is far better- more body and worth the money. Recently did a dem with an bare NDX and an ND5 with Hugo.
To me the Hugo was good- lots of detail but seemed to not have the pace and drive of the NDX which I prefered. Saying that the Hugo wasnt run in- the dem was with an SN2 and PMC 20 23s. I have an 82/SC/250.2 and PMC Fact 3s
I am now at a stage where I am not sure if to add the NDAC inbetween the ND5 and XPS2 or just change the ND5 for an NDX. A used NDAC would cost me circa £1200
Been through similar - See my earlier reply, which might be of help.
G
I was using a nd5xs/ndac combo but always thought there was something missing.After much deliberation of forum members we know the ndac needs at least a xps to shine.Not wanting to go 3 box source I tried the xps2dr on my nd5 and basically my findings were similar to yours.
The ndac has since been sold and the nd5xs/xps2dr combo is much more enjoyable and musical to my ears.
My plan is to change the nd5 for a ndx later in the year.I will though have the ndx for several weeks to see if the outlay is justified.
See if you can loan a ndac to dem in your system before buying,you may find you lose the boogie factor to a more clinical sound.
Scott
I tried xp5xs with my nd5xs, and struggled to tell if the slight difference I heard was real or simply my imagination justifying the cost, as is all too easy. Certainly no wow factor. (I had bought without auditioning, as no Naim dealer in less than 1 day/ several £hundred travel)
After a few weeks I exchanged xp5xs for Hugo: more noticeable change, and, I feel, a tangible improvement.
Then I removed the preamp, Hugo feeding power amp directly, and so shortening the chain to bare minimum: Mmmm... It is telling that I ended up leaving like that, accepting the hassle of rewiring to reinsert preamp on occasions when I want an analog input.
I was worried about Hugo vol control, but it actually works well both in physical terms and control range.
I'm now wondering just how that box of tricks called the nd5xs justifies the capital tied up in it, other than providing convenience for as long as the Naim app does what I want (which is does in part, but please, Naim, implement that wish-list!). But maybe I'm missing something as surely it's internal stability and screening etc must make it a better (SQ-wise) source than a computer? At least, with the exception of odd occasions when it can't find my 'room', the system with Naim app is sufficiently spouse-friendly to be usable.
I'm now wondering just how that box of tricks called the nd5xs justifies the capital tied up in it, other than providing convenience for as long as the Naim app does what I want (which is does in part, but please, Naim, implement that wish-list!). But maybe I'm missing something as surely it's internal stability and screening etc must make it a better (SQ-wise) source than a computer? At least, with the exception of odd occasions when it can't find my 'room', the system with Naim app is sufficiently spouse-friendly to be usable.
maybe your ND5XS, HUGO and MF amp combo is not that compatible? the sonic signature of your system is dominated by HUGO and MF rather than ND5 which you use only for network streaming ?
My ND5 + SN 1 combo sounds phenomenal.
Bobby
I tried xp5xs with my nd5xs, and struggled to tell if the slight difference I heard was real or simply my imagination justifying the cost, as is all too easy. Certainly no wow factor. (I had bought without auditioning, as no Naim dealer in less than 1 day/ several £hundred travel)
After a few weeks I exchanged xp5xs for Hugo: more noticeable change, and, I feel, a tangible improvement.
Then I removed the preamp, Hugo feeding power amp directly, and so shortening the chain to bare minimum: Mmmm... It is telling that I ended up leaving like that, accepting the hassle of rewiring to reinsert preamp on occasions when I want an analog input.
I was worried about Hugo vol control, but it actually works well both in physical terms and control range.
I'm now wondering just how that box of tricks called the nd5xs justifies the capital tied up in it, other than providing convenience for as long as the Naim app does what I want (which is does in part, but please, Naim, implement that wish-list!). But maybe I'm missing something as surely it's internal stability and screening etc must make it a better (SQ-wise) source than a computer? At least, with the exception of odd occasions when it can't find my 'room', the system with Naim app is sufficiently spouse-friendly to be usable.
I tried the Hugo into a Conrad Johnson AMP and found the combo less enjoyable vs Hugo--> CJ Pre --> CJ Amp. I think the hugo needs a certain kind of amp to work at top SQ bypassing a traditional Pre. I have a RCA --> Din4 high line…perhaps I'll try bypassing my SN2+HICAPDR and put it right into the SN@'s power amp.
I tried xp5xs with my nd5xs, and struggled to tell if the slight difference I heard was real or simply my imagination justifying the cost, as is all too easy. Certainly no wow factor. (I had bought without auditioning, as no Naim dealer in less than 1 day/ several £hundred travel)
After a few weeks I exchanged xp5xs for Hugo: more noticeable change, and, I feel, a tangible improvement.
Then I removed the preamp, Hugo feeding power amp directly, and so shortening the chain to bare minimum: Mmmm... It is telling that I ended up leaving like that, accepting the hassle of rewiring to reinsert preamp on occasions when I want an analog input.
I was worried about Hugo vol control, but it actually works well both in physical terms and control range.
I'm now wondering just how that box of tricks called the nd5xs justifies the capital tied up in it, other than providing convenience for as long as the Naim app does what I want (which is does in part, but please, Naim, implement that wish-list!). But maybe I'm missing something as surely it's internal stability and screening etc must make it a better (SQ-wise) source than a computer? At least, with the exception of odd occasions when it can't find my 'room', the system with Naim app is sufficiently spouse-friendly to be usable.
FYI… I own both ND5 and NDX. The NDX is, in my opinion, vastly better sounding into a SN2. Like Mango Monkey indicated, adding a external power supply to ND5 probably won't make it sound as good as a bare NDX.
ND5XS - A bit flat solo
ND5XS + XP5XS - a little more scale and body, but not a great difference
ND5XS + NDAC/555PS - a turbocharged mini, not good
NDX - more believable and better balanced than all the above
NDX + 555PS - more scale, body and believability
NDX + Hugo - best presentation of MUSIC than all of the above
....honest.
G
ND5XS - A bit flat solo
ND5XS + XP5XS - a little more scale and body, but not a great difference
ND5XS + NDAC/555PS - a turbocharged mini, not good
NDX - more believable and better balanced than all the above
NDX + 555PS - more scale, body and believability
NDX + Hugo - best presentation of MUSIC than all of the above
....honest.
G
Yeah, I now have NDX--> Hugo and love it well beyond bare NDX. Makes the power supply upgrade prices seem a bit crazy. Just my opinion.
I'm now wondering just how that box of tricks called the nd5xs justifies the capital tied up in it, other than providing convenience for as long as the Naim app does what I want (which is does in part, but please, Naim, implement that wish-list!). But maybe I'm missing something as surely it's internal stability and screening etc must make it a better (SQ-wise) source than a computer? At least, with the exception of odd occasions when it can't find my 'room', the system with Naim app is sufficiently spouse-friendly to be usable.
maybe your ND5XS, HUGO and MF amp combo is not that compatible? the sonic signature of your system is dominated by HUGO and MF rather than ND5 which you use only for network streaming ?
My ND5 + SN 1 combo sounds phenomenal.
Bobby
I didn't say or mean I'm in any way unhappy with my set-up as is! Merely now I've replaced the DAC in the nd5xs with the Hugo: I'm very happy! I had been reasonably happy with nd5xs alone but not quite convinced that it achieved as good as my former Shearne CD player which it replaced as primary source. (couldn't do direct comparison as latter had died), but nowI'm sure it's at least as good.
I was quite literally wondering what is in the nd5xs box other than a silent computer and a media player - admittedly normally a stable and easy to use one, bar a few missed opportunities with the control app.
I'm now wondering just how that box of tricks called the nd5xs justifies the capital tied up in it, other than providing convenience for as long as the Naim app does what I want (which is does in part, but please, Naim, implement that wish-list!). But maybe I'm missing something as surely it's internal stability and screening etc must make it a better (SQ-wise) source than a computer? At least, with the exception of odd occasions when it can't find my 'room', the system with Naim app is sufficiently spouse-friendly to be usable.
maybe your ND5XS, HUGO and MF amp combo is not that compatible? the sonic signature of your system is dominated by HUGO and MF rather than ND5 which you use only for network streaming ?
My ND5 + SN 1 combo sounds phenomenal.
Bobby
I didn't say or mean I'm in any way unhappy with my set-up as is! Merely now I've replaced the DAC in the nd5xs with the Hugo: I'm very happy! I had been reasonably happy with nd5xs alone but not quite convinced that it achieved as good as my former Shearne CD player which it replaced as primary source. (couldn't do direct comparison as latter had died), but nowI'm sure it's at least as good.
I was quite literally wondering what is in the nd5xs box other than a silent computer and a media player - admittedly normally a stable and easy to use one, bar a few missed opportunities with the control app.
It is simply a high quality Ethernet[+ other inputs]-->SPDIF converter.
ND5XS - A bit flat solo
ND5XS + XP5XS - a little more scale and body, but not a great difference
ND5XS + NDAC/555PS - a turbocharged mini, not good
NDX - more believable and better balanced than all the above
NDX + 555PS - more scale, body and believability
NDX + Hugo - best presentation of MUSIC than all of the above
....honest.
G
Have you tried ND5XS + Hugo to place it on your scale to your ears?
ND5XS - A bit flat solo
ND5XS + XP5XS - a little more scale and body, but not a great difference
ND5XS + NDAC/555PS - a turbocharged mini, not good
NDX - more believable and better balanced than all the above
NDX + 555PS - more scale, body and believability
NDX + Hugo - best presentation of MUSIC than all of the above
....honest.
G
And, NDX + nDAC (into SN/HC2 -> ProAc TriTowers) ... and views?
I know the sound can get better ... but it's very good already! 
Mitch
NDX + Hugo - best presentation of MUSIC than all of the above
....honest.
G
Do you anticipate that ND5 + Hugo would match NDX + Hugo in SQ? I am thinking of the cheaper option given that DAC function in either case would go to Hugo?
Bobby
The ND5XS into NDAC was not as good as NDX into NDAC. This is the only reference point I have which may also translate to Hugo.
G