Joy Division - BBC4 21:00 Fri 27th Feb
Posted by: ChrisH on 27 February 2015
If anyone's interested should be a good programme.
Apparently telling the (often told!) story but 'through unseen live performances, personal photos, period films and audiotapes.'
recording it.
i was suprised the first time I heard unknown pleasures through my new naim system. i was expecting it to sound pretty poor. it's actually a brilliantly produced album and sounds amazing. i dont know who the sound engineer was but they did a great job.
I fully agree HalloweenMan. I always thought it was a murky production, definitely not the case listening to it these days.
Sound Engineer was Martin Hannett, was responsible for a lot of Factory Records stuff.
I wasn't familiar with his name until I heard Dead Kennedys 'Nazi Punks F... Off' in the early 80s where the song is recorded with Jello Biafra (I think) starting off with '.....Martin Hannett Take 4' before launching into the song.
Hope the programme's a good'un anyway!
I saw this at the cinema back in 2007, and have it on DVD. A very good doc of the last truly great band.
I fully agree HalloweenMan. I always thought it was a murky production, definitely not the case listening to it these days.
Sound Engineer was Martin Hannett, was responsible for a lot of Factory Records stuff.
I wasn't familiar with his name until I heard Dead Kennedys 'Nazi Punks F... Off' in the early 80s where the song is recorded with Jello Biafra (I think) starting off with '.....Martin Hannett Take 4' before launching into the song.
Hope the programme's a good'un anyway!
Hannett was the producer, and the engineer was Chris Nagle. It was recorded at Strawberry, which was 10CC's studio. Done on 8-track IIRC.
It is one of the most astonishing production jobs ever. Hannett was a genius. He (along with manager Rob Gretton) is as important to the Joy Division story as the four musicians.
As well as JD, he also produced early records by New Order, ESG, John Cooper Clarke, Jilted John, Names, Section 25, Pauline Murray & The Invisible Girls, A Certain Ratio, Durutti Column and, later, Magazine, Happy Mondays.
He never had any involvement with the Dead Kennedys, by the way.
recording it.
i was suprised the first time I heard unknown pleasures through my new naim system. i was expecting it to sound pretty poor. it's actually a brilliantly produced album and sounds amazing. i dont know who the sound engineer was but they did a great job.
When I bought the album when it came out in June 1979, and played it on my crappy Ferguson Studio 6 music centre, I was struck by how good, how clear, how hard it sounded. Playing that first pressing now, on the LP12, it sounds incredible. The second - and last - album Closer, recorded by Hannett at the Floyd's Britannia Row complex, if anything, sounds even better.
As I said, as a producer, Hannett was a transformative genius. Sadly, he died too young, and his talent was eventually ruined by his addictions and lifestyle choices.
Well, well, thats something new Ive learnt today. Ive only thought for 30 odd years that Martin Hannett produced / engineered that song by the DKs!
Ive just Googled it and found a reference in Wikipedia - you are spot on Kevin.
Don"t forget early U2!
This his is a great Hannett compilation.
SJB
As is this, released on Factory in 1991, just after his death:
And as well as U2's "11 O'Clock Tick Tock", there's also the Buzzcocks' seminal "Spiral Scratch".
I was fascinated at the other three members who went on to be New Order. I can't say that any of them came over as any way likeable, none of the chaps I would like to go down to the pub with even though they seem to have spent a lot of time there. But because of this it was very a human portrayal.
Immediately on finishing it I had to sit down and listen to Closer. One of the heads noted that Joy Division still sounds current/relevant today (evidenced I suppose by my son and his band all being into them). Listening to Closer I can't help think it even still sounds futuristic.
SJB
"Futuristic" is indeed a great way of describing the music, SJB. What was a revelation to me in this programme was the fact that Bernard didn't like Martin Hannett's production of Unknown Pleasures because the sound effects he added rendered Manchester as an almost science fiction backdrop. Have to say I disagree with Bernard on this one. Needless to say, UP is one of my most treasured albums, and almost certainly my most listened to album over the years (with Closer probably a very close second :-) ).
Adrian
Yes. As is Control. 24PP is a bit of a joke, a kind of Carry On Factory, with Wilson as Kenneth Williams. Hugely entertaining, but not especially truthful (speaking as a Factory scholar).
Recorded but gotta be in the mood to watch it. Although I never saw them live, Control left a bad taste in my mouth as I could not swallow the bad acting and fractured storyline.
I was fascinated at the other three members who went on to be New Order. I can't say that any of them came over as any way likeable, none of the chaps I would like to go down to the pub with even though they seem to have spent a lot of time there. But because of this it was very a human portrayal.
Immediately on finishing it I had to sit down and listen to Closer. One of the heads noted that Joy Division still sounds current/relevant today (evidenced I suppose by my son and his band all being into them). Listening to Closer I can't help think it even still sounds futuristic.
SJB
I think a lot of what Manchester is today isn't so much down to JD, but Factory, or more especially Tony Wilson. I knew him quite well, and was very fond of him, although he was infuriating. But his energy was astonishing. He, along with [JD and NO manager] Rob Gretton, were tireless proselytisers for Manchester, and for youth culture, and although they made many mistakes, they were devoted to the city and its people, and did an awful lot of good. The comparison with U2/Dublin isn't really valid I think, because JD/NO never left Manchester and poured all their money back into the city in the form of The Hacienda, Dry, Factory and so forth.
I have met most of the people involved. Bernard I found a bit difficult, although he is intelligent and thoughtful; Hooky, when he wasn't off his head, was very amusing and a bit of an old softie. Steve was very funny and Gillian (Steve's wife and member of NO) was lovely. Hannett was really, really scary, and Rob was great on the occasions I met him (even though he used to call all "Cockneys" like me "****s") and Peter Saville [designer] was always a fascinating conversationalist. But as you say, all very human.
Both Closer and Unknown Pleasures are remarkable records that will never age.
Recorded but gotta be in the mood to watch it. Although I never saw them live, Control left a bad taste in my mouth as I could not swallow the bad acting and fractured storyline.
Takes all sorts - I thought the acting was very good, although it does portray the non-Ian trio as cyphers somewhat.
I was lucky enough to see them live, and they were stupendous.
"Futuristic" is indeed a great way of describing the music, SJB. What was a revelation to me in this programme was the fact that Bernard didn't like Martin Hannett's production of Unknown Pleasures because the sound effects he added rendered Manchester as an almost science fiction backdrop. Have to say I disagree with Bernard on this one. Needless to say, UP is one of my most treasured albums, and almost certainly my most listened to album over the years (with Closer probably a very close second :-) ).
Adrian
Adrian, Hooky didn't like it either, although both have since come round. I think that's what was truly remarkable about Martin Hannett as a producer. He had a vision for the music that went far beyond what even its creators could see.
Takes all sorts -
Indeed, Kevin. Indeed!
Very interesting to hear a little from someone with some insight to that world, thanks Kevin-W.
I loved Control.
Yes, I know what you mean with some of the acting Tony, but I thought it captured the atmosphere of the time really well, especially being shot in b&w.
I saw it at the local Picturehouse, and MrsH and myself were captivated seeing it on the big screen.
I think a lot of what Manchester is today isn't so much down to JD, but Factory, or more especially Tony Wilson. I knew him quite well, and was very fond of him, although he was infuriating. But his energy was astonishing. He, along with [JD and NO manager] Rob Gretton, were tireless proselytisers for Manchester, and for youth culture, and although they made many mistakes, they were devoted to the city and its people, and did an awful lot of good. The comparison with U2/Dublin isn't really valid I think, because JD/NO never left Manchester and poured all their money back into the city in the form of The Hacienda, Dry, Factory and so forth.
I have met most of the people involved. Bernard I found a bit difficult, although he is intelligent and thoughtful; Hooky, when he wasn't off his head, was very amusing and a bit of an old softie. Steve was very funny and Gillian (Steve's wife and member of NO) was lovely. Hannett was really, really scary, and Rob was great on the occasions I met him (even though he used to call all "Cockneys" like me "****s") and Peter Saville [designer] was always a fascinating conversationalist. But as you say, all very human.
Both Closer and Unknown Pleasures are remarkable records that will never age.
Interesting Kevin to get real life opinions on these things, thanks.
SJB
I still need to watch this. I saw them play in 1979 at Bangor Uni, supporting the Buzzcocks. A couple of mates of mine ended up sitting with the band at lunchtime in the refectory, and were chatting away without realising who they were. It was only when the band hit the stage that they realised.
I went to a secret New Order gig in Leicester a few years later, and the band were selling the tickets themselves - that was weird.
Joy Division were amazing live, and the two proper albums are truly great works.
Hi
Must say I enjoyed this a lot, more so than Control, and the documentary gets to the heart of the music nicely.
Ian Curtis was already dead by the time I got into them but I can still recall my astonishment the first time I heard "Disorder", "Shadowsplay" etc. It was so original, ahead of its time and still sounds great today.
ATB
Ray