W4S Remedy into Sonos

Hi Philim....I am also considering a w4s reclocker.

What dac are you using.

You can also buy a better powersupply to further improve the sound.

Where is the RR available in the UK?

Thanks

G

Philip, I also would be interested what source and sink or DAC you used. I assume you were using a Naim DAC of some sort?

Graeme, Item Audio appear to sell it in the UK.

Simon

Cheers Simon.

G

Thanks Philip, thats interesting. I am using the same Westlake modded MDac with Sonos in my second/headphone system.  I will be interested in any further observations that you might have and being able to find out where I could get a trial unit.

Steve

Thanks Phil that's great.

The Remedy arrived this morning, and was installed as follows:

Sonos Connect + Deezer Elite -> Wireworld Toslink 6 -> Remedy -> Naim DC1 BNC -> NDS.

I let it run in for about 12 hours, and just had a listen. My first impressions are positive, but it will take me a few days to compare with local UPnP and form a lasting opinion.

If it stays, and right now I suspect it will, then my next step will be replacing the 9V DC wall wart with a linear power supply from either Kingrex or Teradak.

Hook

Hook, interesting. Can you say how you consider the reclcoker changes the audio? Have you tried or are able to try local UPnP through the Sonos and compared it to native UPnP so as to compare sonic differences with the reclocker?

Thanks

Simon

For those who are interested, the follow are my impressions of the W4S Remedy reclocker.

For those new to this discussion, I have been using Deezer Elite running on Sonos Connect for a few months, and have recently been exploring ways to improve its digital output.  Started off using a Toslink connection to my NDS/555PSDR, and thought the sound quality was quite good given how inexpensive the Connect was to purchase. But after some comparisons to streaming directly from NDS via UPnP, I became convinced that there was room for improvement. I could hear some hardening of female vocals, and Mrs. Hook helped me confirm there was audible difference using blind testing.

A couple of weeks back, I purchased a Remedy Reclocker from Wyred 4 Sound, and it now sits between the Connect and NDS. The Connect's SMPS is on a separate power circuit, and I am still using Toslink to reach the Remedy. The reclocker, in turn, is connected using a Naim DC1 BNC cable to the NDS. I started off using the SMPS that came with the Remedy, but have since replaced it with a 3rd-party 9V linear PS from KingRex, which is now connected using a spare PL to the same circuit as the rest of audio gear.

I'll cut to the conclusion: using blind tests, neither Mrs. Hook nor I can now accurately distinguish between the same album played on the NDS directly via UPnP versus being fed via S/PDIF from the Sonos/Remedy.  Try as we might after many rounds, we both feel we are just guessing at differences -- it is that close.  As a result, I am now convinced that any remaining differences in sound quality between UPnP and S/PDIF input are below our threshold of hearing.

It wasn't always that way. Before the Remedy arrived, Mrs. Hook was able to distinguish between these two sources quite easily.  Our process was that she listen to song in order to remember it and learn it, and then I play her up to 30 second sample pairs from the same song.  If, however, she feels she has made a positive ID, she calls a halt before the sample finishes playing. Sometimes the pairs were A/B, other times they were A/A or B/B.  She got very good at it, and was able to tell A from B, or say she heard no difference very consistently.  We repeated the tests with a few different songs she likes (e.g., Adele's "Set Fire to the Rain", Habib Koite's "Baro" and John Hiatt's "Memphis in the Meantime"), and results were all very similar.  With no Remedy in place, she would repeatedly score 8 to 10 of 10 correct. Add in the Remedy, and her success rate dropped to 5 to 7 of 10.  Add the linear PS, and she stopped trying - she said it felt like pure guesswork.

As many know, the NDS borrows technology from the Naim DAC that buffers and reclocks an incoming S/PDIF signal. In theory, all S/PDIF related jitter should be eliminated. IMO, this explains why directly connecting a high-jitter source like the Sonos Connect to an NDS can sound very good. Using Toslink should have also eliminated the effects of EMI, but we were still able to reliably distinguish the sound quality between UPnP and S/PDIF. This reminded of the early days of testing the Naim DAC when most here reported being able to hear a difference between CD players and other digital sources. 

Looking back, I probably could have stopped with adding the Remedy and its standard power supply, but I was just not comfortable plugging the cheap wall wart into the same circuit as my audio gear. Nor did I want the electrical noise from plugging it into a different circuit to enter the NDS. I read online that several folks were using 3rd-party linear 9V supplies with the Remedy, and I was lucky enough to find one for sale very inexpensively on eBay. Turns out this PS from KingRex was intended for their own DAC, not the Remedy, and so a small mod - reversing the polarity of the 9V barrel connector - was required (the Remedy wants + on the barrel connector's inside). No big deal - easily done.  As I said earlier, this allowed me to comfortably place the KingRex on my brawn stack (next to my turntable's PS), and draw power from my audio setup's electrical circuit.  A good result!

Subjectively, I am not sure what else to say.  Without the reclocker the Sonos Connect into an NDS is still very good. The main thing I've noticed since adding the reclocker is that I can listen to the Sonos services for longer periods of time without any fatigue.  Not quite to the level of vinyl, but as good as UPnP to the NDS has been.  Going forward, I see no reason why the Sonos can't be my main digital interface, with the NDS being used primarily for UPnP playback of high resolution files (including my collection of 24/96 flac needle drops).

All in all, I can confidently recommend the W4S Remedy (along with the KingRex linear 9V PS) as an excellent upgrade for improving the Sonos Connect digital output.

ATB.

Hook

Hook, thanks for the write up.. An intersting read

S

Hook, great info. With the benefit of hindsight do you think it would be better to go with the W4S modified Sonos, rather than the Remedy? 

Good question Likes. W4S seems like a good little company, and both approaches get good reviews online.

For me, from a retail cost perspective, there wasn't much difference.  The clock mods cost $550, whereas the Remedy was $399 plus the cost of cables. I already owned a  Naim DC1 BNC and a Wireworld Supernova 6 Toslink, so no extra cost there for me. Finally, while I bought the Remedy new, the KingsRex PS was used (new ones are $400 - I paid $125). There are 9V linear PS's from China for as little as $50.

Note that the W4S mods for Sonos Connect address only the clocking, and not the PS.  There are other, more expensive mods from other companies that do both. Another thing I noticed was that the mods don't include a BNC output, only RCA and optical.  If I had any intention of using the Connect's analog output, then the mods had the advantage of replacing the internal dac with a better one.  Lastly, I shouldn't forget to mention the obvious - the mods void the manufacturer's warranty.

One box versus three boxes is better, but the Remedy is small, and easily tucked away.  In terms of redeployment, there are probably good arguments both ways.  I suppose that I could place the Connect in one setup and the Remedy in another, but in my house they will always go together.  In terms of resale, I've found that modded products tend to lose their value more quickly, so if I ever decide to sell, I could probably recoup more by selling the unmodified products.

In other words, I guess either approach could have worked. Looking back, if I had full confidence from the start that the Connect was going to work out, I think I would have looked at mods from other companies - ones that addressed both the clocking and the power supply.

HTH.

Hook

Really useful Hook, thanks.

i was just wondering to myself today what had happened to the W4s 'pioneers' threads.

Will the NDS stay...?

G

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...han-standard-version

We seem to have come full circle on this topic...

tp

Hi Graeme -

Yes, the NDS will stay. It has served me very well for past three years and I still love its sound quality and versatility.  I will still use it for playing high resolution files via UPnP, and for surfing Bandcamp and Youtube on my iPad via a Bluetooth receiver.

As you know, Paul S has said that Naim will deliver lossless streaming services for Naim network players. When I feel that one or more of those services can replace Deezer Elite, then I'll redeploy the Sonos/Remedy to either my or Mrs. Hook's office as a second system.

ATB.

Hook

Thanks - That much sums up my position too.

Best

G

Allen - I was wondering that - as I was musing whether to press an old TP PSU from my Squeezebox days into service for a possible purchase of Remedy.

However I note Philim and Hook have quite different systems and Philim is not using a Naim based Dac according to his profile.

Simon

I'm tempted to try one via Sonos Connect direct into Hugo...if I can sort the pesky earth hum issue.

G